"John the Baptist" == Qumran

[Giuseppe]

The connection between John the Baptist and Qumran has been made a lot of times, the last time (Doudna) by arguing that John the Baptist was the real Teacher of Righteousness. Even apart from the real question if John existed really or not, it is a fact that he is a symbol for a sect considered conservative (and as such anti-Jesuan) by both Mark and Marcion.

What are the not-apologetical reasons to deny any connection between John and Qumran?

[lsayre]

The burden of proof lies with the beholder.

[Giuseppe]

The strongest argument (for 'John the Baptist' == Qumran) is that the Rule of Community in Qumran contained the following text:

'

And when these become members of the Community in Israel according to all these rules, they shall separate from the habitation of ungodly men and shall go into the wilderness to prepare the way of Him; as it is written, Prepare in the wilderness the way of ... [unreadable] make straight in the desert a path for our God (Isa.xi,3). This (path) is the study of the Law which He commanded by the hand of Moses”.

Compare it with John 1:23:

John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.'”

John the Baptist does what Qumran does, and vice versa: therefore any personal identity of John the Baptist vanishes entirely behind Qumran.

[StephenGoranson]

John the Baptist is too late to be the person that some Qumran mss call the Teacher of Righteousness.

[StephenGoranson]

Many people have said "I am a voice crying in the wilderness."
For example, Henry H. Wilson, testifying before the U.S. Congress House of Representatives in 1926.
That does not mean that Henry Wilson was John the Baptist.

[Charles Wilson]

Once again, with feeling...

John the Baptist is a character written around the Mishmarot Group "Bilgah" ( https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3298-bilgah ):

John 1: 15 (RSV):

[15] (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, `He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'")

Bilgah committed an offense against the Priesthood. There is a Coup planned in the Mishmarot Group "Immer", which comes to Jerusalem immediately after Bilgah for their Weekly Mishamrot Service. Thus, "He who comes after me..." describes Immer following Bilgah. Because of this Offense, Immer ranks ahead of Bilgah (The Priests considered reducing the number of Priestly Groups to 23 from 24 but decided against it.)

"for he was before me..." is interesting. It suggests interpolation but there are other possibilities as well. The subject preceeding this fragment is concerned with RANK, not the age of the Bilgah character nor the age of the rewritten creation of "Jesus".

[Giuseppe]

Many people have said "I am a voice crying in the wilderness."
For example, Henry H. Wilson, testifying before the U.S. Congress House of Representatives in 1926.
That does not mean that Henry Wilson was John the Baptist.

we can distinguish Henry Wilson by other specific traits. Can we do the same with John the Baptist?

My answer is: no, we can't.

The action of John the Baptist comes down to saying what any member of Qumran could say (quoting Isaiah), and to doing what any member of Qumran could do (baptism + wilderness).

Show me a generic member of Qumran and I will show you mr 'John the Baptist'.

[StephenGoranson]

Again:
John the Baptist is too late to be the person that some Qumran mss call the Teacher of Righteousness.

Giuseppe did not address this (nor Charles Wilson).

[Charles Wilson]

Again:
John the Baptist is too late to be the person that some Qumran mss call the Teacher of Righteousness.

Giuseppe did not address this (nor Charles Wilson).

Thanx, SG.
I am currently of the opinion, with Eisenman and Wise (Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered) if I recall correctly, that the Teacher of Righteousness is Alexander Jannaeus.

CW

[Giuseppe]

Again:
John the Baptist is too late to be the person that some Qumran mss call the Teacher of Righteousness.

Giuseppe did not address this (nor Charles Wilson).

my point is that John the Baptist and Qumran (not John the Baptist and the Teacher of Righteousness) are perfectly interchangeable in the gospels.