The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Irish1975
Posts: 1057
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:01 am

The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by Irish1975 »

The NT authors use a curious expression to refer to the original "act" of the creator:

The "katabolé" of the cosmos.

(1) ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου -- "from" or "since" the katabolé

(2) πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου -- "before" the katabolé

A standard concordance turns up the following--

Matthew 13:35 N-GFS
GRK: κεκρυμμένα ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου
NAS: SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
KJV: from the foundation of the world.
INT: things hidden from [the] foundation of [the] world

Matthew 25:34 N-GFS
GRK: βασιλείαν ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου
NAS: prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
KJV: from the foundation of the world:
INT: kingdom from [the] foundation of [the] world

Luke 11:50 N-GFS
GRK: ἐκκεχυμένον ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου ἀπὸ
NAS: since the foundation of the world,
KJV: from the foundation of the world,
INT: poured out from [the] foundation of [the] world of

John 17:24 N-GFS
GRK: με πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου
NAS: Me before the foundation of the world.
KJV: me before the foundation of the world.
INT: me before [the] foundation of [the] world

Ephesians 1:4 N-GFS
GRK: αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου εἶναι
NAS: us in Him before the foundation of the world,
KJV: before the foundation of the world,
INT: him before [the] foundation of [the] world to be

Hebrews 4:3 N-GFS
GRK: ἔργων ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου γενηθέντων
NAS: were finished from the foundation of the world.
KJV: from the foundation of the world.
INT: works from [the] foundation of [the] world having been finished

Hebrews 9:26 N-GFS
GRK: παθεῖν ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου νυνὶ
NAS: since the foundation of the world;
KJV: since the foundation of the world:
INT: to have suffered from [the] foundation of [the] world now

Hebrews 11:11 N-AFS
GRK: δύναμιν εἰς καταβολὴν σπέρματος ἔλαβεν
NAS: ability to conceive, even
KJV: strength to conceive seed, and
INT: power for [the] conception of seed received

1 Peter 1:20 N-GFS
GRK: μὲν πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου φανερωθέντος
NAS: before the foundation of the world,
KJV: before the foundation of the world,
INT: indeed before [the] foundation of [the] world having been revealed

Revelation 13:8 N-GFS
GRK: ἐσφαγμένου ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου
NAS: has not been written from the foundation of the world
KJV: from the foundation of the world.
INT: slain from [the] founding of [the] world

Revelation 17:8 N-GFS
GRK: ζωῆς ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου βλεπόντων
NAS: of life from the foundation of the world,
KJV: from the foundation of the world,
INT: of life from [the] foundation of [the] world seeing

In 10 of these 11 instances of katabolé, it is paired with "of the cosmos." Only Hebrews 11:11 has this word used by itself, where it refers to the ability of Sarah (some have argued that it ought to be Abraham) to conceive a human offspring. And I have not discovered any instances of this two-word phrase outside of the NT.

On its face, it seems that ten (or just nine, since "kosmos" might be missing from Mat 13:35) occurrences of this two-word phrase in the canonical NT point to a deliberate authorial or editorial decision to use a technical term.

Latin bibles have generally translated this phrase with "constitutio mundi": the constitution of the world.

Wycliffe and Tyndale seem to have used "since the world was made/created," or something like that. But from the time of the Authorrized Version until now, English Bibles almost always use "the foundation of the world."

Thus the generally Christian, generally orthodox translation of the καταβολῆς κόσμου. It refers to the creator's creative ordering or establishment of the world as an ordered whole.

But do these translations accurately reflect what the NT authors meant? Perhaps not.

1) The meaning of "kosmos."

What follows captures the important connotations of the NT usage of κόσμος, in historical context rather than in our modern understandings of "the world"--
...The word 'world' as we use it today simply does not capture what is most essential to the ancient concept of "cosmos," a ord that most literally means "order" or "arrangement" or even "loveliness of design." For us, the "world" is either merely the physical reality of nature and society "out there," or it is the human spherewith all its attendant moral and historical contingencies. For the late antique cultures from which the New Testament came, the "cosmos" was quite literally a magnificently and terribly elaborate order of reality that comprehended nature (understood as a rational integrity organized by metaphysical principles), the essential principles of the natural and animal human condition (flesh and soul, for instance, with all their miseries), the spiritual world (including the hierarchies of the "divine," the angelic, and the daemonic), the astral and planetary heavens (understood as a changeless realm at once physical and spiritual), as well as social, political, and religious structures of authority and power (including the governments of human beings, angels, celestial "daemons," gods, terrestrial demons, and whatever other mysterious forces might be hiding behind nature's visible forms). It is a vision of the whole of things that is utterly unlike any with which most of us are today familiar, and that simply does not correspond to any meaning of "world" intuitively obvious to us.

D.B. Hart, The New Testament, pp. 558-59.
For such a complex reality, is it inevitable or even natural to think of there being "foundations" in the architectural sense?

2) The meaning of the noun katabolé and its verbal root, kataballó.

In Homer, both balló and kataballó mean to throw down, strike down, hurl down; it can be applied figuratively to a variety of actions, such as killing in war or sacrificing an animal victim.

In lexicons of Christian literature, such as BAG or Strong's, the word is almost exclusively confined to the architectural metaphor: throwing a foundation stone down into the earth. Thus it comes to mean "to found" or "to lay a foundation."

However, in the recently published 2-volume Cambridge Greek Lexicon, which covers both sacred and secular literature, there is a much greater variety of senses:

1 throw down -- as of a wrestler, or of a woman for sex, or of oneself for sleep
2 strike down
3 knock over, overturn
4 pull down, demolish, mow down
5 ruin
6 overthrough, overwhelm, vanquish
7 cast down
8 humiliate, abase, discredit, diminish
9 throw ashore or into jail
[10-15 more of the same]
16 lower, take down, move to a lower position
17 put or set down, as of laws
18 sow crops
19 lay foundations of a building, or the keel of a ship
etc.

But for katabolé only three senses are cited--

1 foundations, beginnings, outset, as of success, tyranny, dynasties, or the universe
2 down payment of money
3 onset, as of a disease

Is it only the NT that uses katabolé to refer to cosmic "foundations" or beginnings?


One last thought. In Romans 8:20, we have the verse about creation being "subject to futility," contrary to its own will. How that single verse might relate to the much more substantial pattern concerning the "katabole kosmou" is something to think about.
Last edited by Irish1975 on Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
mbuckley3
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:47 am

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by mbuckley3 »

Now you point it out, it is indeed a curious expression...

Origen, Commentary on John 19.149, seems to agree with you that it is an NT neologism :

"That world has nothing below, as this (world has) nothing above, to the one who examines it exactly. For how can this world have anything above, whose creation [κτισις] is a καταβολη ? For it is not by chance that one hears the (phrase), 'before the καταβολη of the world', but the saints invented [πλασαντων] the term καταβολη purposely, because of such an idea, while they could have said 'before the creation [ κτισεως] of the world' and not have used the term καταβολη."
User avatar
Irish1975
Posts: 1057
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:01 am

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by Irish1975 »

mbuckley3 wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:03 pm Now you point it out, it is indeed a curious expression...

Origen, Commentary on John 19.149, seems to agree with you that it is an NT neologism :

"That world has nothing below, as this (world has) nothing above, to the one who examines it exactly. For how can this world have anything above, whose creation [κτισις] is a καταβολη ? For it is not by chance that one hears the (phrase), 'before the καταβολη of the world', but the saints invented [πλασαντων] the term καταβολη purposely, because of such an idea, while they could have said 'before the creation [ κτισεως] of the world' and not have used the term καταβολη."
Great find.

What does Origen say before this part?
andrewcriddle
Posts: 2860
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:36 am

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by andrewcriddle »

Liddell for katabolh

Andrew Criddle
lclapshaw
Posts: 784
Joined: Sun May 16, 2021 10:01 am

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by lclapshaw »

At any rate, it's my new go to term. 😎
mbuckley3
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:47 am

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by mbuckley3 »

Irish1975


Origen's meaning is not fully explicated. He seems to be reserving κτισις for the act of creation in the intelligible world, while καταβολη is a secondary creation of the physical cosmos necessary to accommodate divergent wills.

I think his only other extant mention of καταβολη is in On First Principles 3.5.4, in Rufinus' Latin translation/paraphrase. I'll quote some here, mainly because Rufinus, with his interjections, shares your unease with 'foundation' as a translation; and because Origen refers to Romans 8.20 as you did at the close of your OP.

"Still, there is a point which I do not think we ought lightly to pass by, and that is that the holy scriptures call the creation/condition [conditionem] of the world by a new and peculiar name, terming it καταβολη. (This word is very incorrectly translated into Latin by 'constitutio', or foundation, for καταβολη in Greek has rather the significance of 'deicere', that is, to cast downwards, and is, as we have said, incorrectly rendered into Latin by 'constitutio.')....It seems worthwhile, therefore, to inquire what it is that is indicated by this new name.
"Now I think that since the end and consummation of the saints will happen in those worlds that are not seen and are eternal, we must suppose..that rational creatures have also had a similar beginning...If this is so, there has been a descent from higher to lower conditions not only on the part of those souls who by the variety of their own movements deserved it, but also on the part of those who have been brought down, even against their will, from those higher invisible conditions to these lower visible ones, in order to be of service to the whole world. For indeed 'the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but by reason of him who subjected the same in hope', the hope being that both sun and moon and stars and the angels of God should fulfil an obedient service for the world; and it was for those souls which on account of their excessive spiritual defects required these grosser and more solid bodies and also for the sake of those others for whom this arrangement was necessary that the present visible world was instituted.
"A descent, therefore, of all alike from higher to lower conditions appears to be indicated by the meaning of this word καταβολη..." (tr. G.W. Butterworth, minor changes)

Of course, Origen's musings are not necessarily relevant to the NT meaning of καταβολη κοσμου. But he is an informed witness to the novelty of the term. And - which I assume is the subtext of your OP - this is further evidence for the David Trobisch view, that the NT was coherently edited into a single 'book'.
User avatar
billd89
Posts: 1422
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: The Act of “Throwing-Down”, "Jumping" etc.

Post by billd89 »

'Foundation' is a terrible but fair translation. I favor the Begetting Motif: the 'sowing of the field' makes more sense, or even better: "the injection or depositing of the virile semen in the womb." Casting the Divine Essence (Logos, as Light) down into the Writhing-Serpentine Dark Chaos is how Creation is described in the Corpus Hermeticum (CH 1).

This is Atum's Primal Act. And (Hermetically-speaking) Eros is the Cause of Death.

In the Baltimore State Hospital for the Criminally Insane.
Image
User avatar
Leucius Charinus
Posts: 2842
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
Location: memoriae damnatio

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Irish1975 wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:56 am The NT authors use a curious expression to refer to the original "act" of the creator:

The "katabolé" of the cosmos.

(1) ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου -- "from" or "since" the katabolé

(2) πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου -- "before" the katabolé

A standard concordance turns up the following--
Here's "foundation" in the NHL but one would need a Coptic equivalent.
About 50 results (0.38 seconds)

https://cse.google.com/cse?cof=LW%3A467 ... =86j7396j2


"Throw down" also is found in the NHL. FWIW an example

The Book of Thomas - The Nag Hammadi Library - John D. Turner ...

And Thomas answered and said, "Lord, what will the one thrown down to them do? For I am most anxious about them; many are those who fight them."


ETA: The NHL authors may tell us things about the NTC authors. I'd deal them in wherever possible. Other perspectives are often useful
mbuckley3
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:47 am

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by mbuckley3 »

Irish1975 wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:56 am






Thus the generally Christian, generally orthodox translation of the καταβολῆς κόσμου. It refers to the creator's creative ordering or establishment of the world as an ordered whole.

But do these translations accurately reflect what the NT authors meant? Perhaps not.

It's a long shot, but there is possibly a demonological context to the formation of the phrase καταβολη κοσμου.

The lexica note that the variant spelling κατηβολη frequently appears in Galen when quoting Hippocratic texts, with the meaning of an epileptic fit. This leads one to consider non-physiological explanations of the same occurrence.

Tertullian, De Anima 28.5 :
"Scimus etiam magiae licere explorandis occultis per catabolicos et paredros et pythonicos spiritus."
"We know very well that magic has {great} power to explore secret things, through catabolic and paredral and pythonic spirits."

As the only other instances of 'catabolicus' in antique Latin are in Potamius (C4) and Fulgentius (C6), it is quite clear that Tertullian is simply transliterating from the Greek standard C2 'technical terms' for categories of daemonic possession.

The 'pythonicus' we know to be the ventriloquising daemon who spoke through a host's mouth, (as at Acts 16.16ff). The 'paredrus' was the permanently indwelling 'familiar', (which is how Tertullian understands Socrates' daemon at De Anima 1.4). The 'catabolicus' is presumably the type of daemon who throws to the ground the victim, whether demoniac or medium, (as at Tertullian, Apologia 23.1).

From this perspective, καταβολη κοσμου would refer to a cosmos under daemonic domination, and so a theological, rather than merely stylistic, 'tell' of the hypothecated editor of the NT as a single book.

Very speculative, but it's there.
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3447
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: The “throwing-down” of the cosmos

Post by DCHindley »

The image that the phrase "throwing down" meaning "formed" may have come from Plato, or Socrates and his Pythagorean buddies. Forgive me for not looking up the references, but IIRC Plato spoke of the action of the Craftsman (he actually uses 2-3 different terms in different works) as he might of a potter creating useful or artful things from previously unshaped eternal "matter." What does a potter do? She or he throws down a lump of clay onto the wheel, and then goes to work on it. I might have to drag out a reference book on Platonism ...

DCH
Post Reply