Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:17 am
Argument from the Parable of the Wineskins found in Mark:
- The Parable of the Wineskins is identical in Marcion and Mark: who wrote it before?
- "Luke" (Catholic editor) sanitized it by adding "and both are preserved";
- If "Luke" (Catholic editor) worked so, it was only because he sensed that the Parable of the Wineskins was marcionite in essentia (and there is no reason at all to disagree with the Luke's sense of smell, in this case);
- Therefore: Mark derived the Parable of Wineskins from Marcion and not vice versa.
First two may be correct, but your final one, that Mark copied Marcion, is likely not true, and does not follow from the first two, as no dependence is established.
You are working from the false assumption that the underlying theology of various Gnostic theologies originated in Marcionism, and that the Marcionites thus wrote the initial gospel, or rather Marcionism was behind the initial gospel. Marcionism has been described by many scholars as a first attempt at Catholicism from a pseudo gnostic movement that was Christianity. In almost every gnostic view, Jesus' father was not the Jewish god, not the creator (demiurge/cosmocreator, etc.), rather an unknown, unknowable high god far above the creator. They read the Jewish scriptures ("law and prophets" = OT) as suggesting a hidden god, who was the father of the true messiah, who was revealed to those who belonged to him. His Christ replaced the Jewish god and his works. Such a statement about wineskins with the meaning that the Marcionites understood, and which the proto-Catholics were aware, could have come from any gnostic sectarian.
This is important, because there was no need for the proto-orthodox to invent a NT or a gospel, as they had scripture and interpretation for their Christ. But for the gnostic, the OT was not from their god, so they would have had greater incentive to replace the scripture, to write something like a gospel; that is the prototype gospel(s) that form the common underpinning of the synoptic gospels we have. Note, these gnostics worked from the same OT scriptures as the proto-orthodox, in similar (identical) communities. It is not a stretch for them to have used the OT as template to build the gospel stories.
In fact it's unlikely a "first Catholic" movement like the Marcionites, that attempted to make this forming NT scripture that backbone of Christianity, would have been the originators. Such a movement requires the existence of the building blocks for them to be defenders of them.
With that in mind, it seems far more likely both the Marcionite writer and Mark drew from a common source for their gospels. We simply do not see Mark pulling much of the Marcionite specific material, rather mostly triple and some double tradition, suggesting Marcionite Luke is not his source.