NotePeter Kirby wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:37 pmSecret Alias wrote: And as to his speaking of a third, he [Plato] did this because he read, as we said above, that which was spoken by Moses, that the Spirit of God moved over the waters. For he [Plato] gives the second place to the Logos which is with God, who he said was placed crosswise in the universe; and the third place to the Spirit who was said to be borne upon the water, saying, And the third around the third.
- Justin is " putting words in Plato's 'mouth' " there
- Previously:
"the prophetic Spirit" might be noteworthy ...Secret Alias wrote:
Justin Apology 13
Our teacher of these things is Jesus Christ, who also was born for this purpose...and that we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove. For they proclaim our madness...that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which...we pray you to give heed.
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as might well be "the mystery that is herein" ...
For posterity:
Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:37 pm
There is something I read recently, forgetting the reference, but I found it very interesting.
Some ancient Christians identified the "Beginning" in the first words of Genesis, "in the beginning," with the Son.
Accordingly, they interpreted the first two verses of the Bible as referring to God (= the Father), the Beginning (= the Son), and the Spirit. Or, to use the terminology that MrMacSon pointed out: God, and His Word, and His Wisdom.
1 In the beginning [= Word], God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God [= Wisdom] was hovering over the waters.
And so we frequently find discussions of the "power" (dunamis) of God, specifying Word and Wisdom as each a "power" of God. As such, in this understanding, "God" applies to the unbegotten God alone. Everything else is dependent, a creation, the flourishing of God. The term "Thalia" (used by Arius) is a word that describes an abundance, like a banquet where everything is provided abundantly for all to enjoy. The person who throws the banquet asks for nothing, requires nothing, offers everything. There is a rich theological tradition here that Arius was steeped in and drawing on. This tradition was no doubt informed in some way by philosophy, as we see in some of the quotes provided in this thread.
I say this to reinforce that there was a development of the idea of a triad or trinity. "Word" and "Wisdom" are deliberate terms. It's no accident, they have meaning and fit into a definite theological scheme. Not every reference to a trinity had the same meaning.
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