andrewcriddle wrote:Thanks for that Steven.
I hadn't realised that Ehrman's views had significantly shifted in 2013.
However IIUC Ehrman does not attribute a theology of a pre-existing Son of God to the synoptics.
Ehrman does clearly attribute such a theology to Paul (in a rather controversial way.)
What I was particularly concerned with, was when Ehrman developed his present understanding of Paul's Christology. Do you know the relevant dates for this ?
That to me is the key question also. Steven's link is to Ehrman's change of mind is on the Synoptics, which is interesting in itself. But Carrier's claim was that Ehrman had 'completely reversed a position' on how early the Christians regarded Jesus being a 'pre-existent divine being'.
My bolding below.
Richard Carrier wrote:The most startling feature of this new book is that in it Ehrman has now completely reversed a position he took against me in Did Jesus Exist (as is well known, I published a detailed critique of that awful book). He now admits that from the very earliest recorded history, indeed even earlier than that, even possibly their very first year, Christians regarded Jesus as a pre-existent divine being...
This of course presents a problem for Ehrman. Because admitting the first Christians regarded Jesus to be a preexistent divine archangel lends unexpected support to mythicism. As many mythicists have been arguing this very point for decades now. And Ehrman can’t have that.
But, in fact, Ehrman had already decided
by the time he had written 'Did Jesus Exist' that the earliest Christians believed that Jesus was an angel. This is what Ehrman wrote in 'Did Jesus Exist' on page 237:
- Another option is that this [Phil 2] is describing Christ as a preexistent angelic being... It is striking that a number of Jewish traditions speak of an angel being exalted to the level of God, sitting on a throne next to that of the Almighty...
What is most significant is that Christ--whether a preexistent divine being, Adam, or an angel (I prefer the final interpretation myself)...
So clearly Ehrman has not changed his view
on Paul regarding Jesus being an angel, but only on his views on what the Synoptics imply. Carrier might be mashing these views together, and perhaps has forgotten what Ehrman actually wrote in 'Did Jesus Exist'.
Putting aside whether Carrier got Ehrman wrong, I'd be interested to know whether Ehrman's change of view on the Synoptics, or any other changes of mind, came after reading mythicist works when writing DJE; or whether those works influenced him in any way.