Do we owe Muslims another apology?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon May 07, 2018 12:05 pm

Do we owe Muslims another apology?

This link says yes.
http://bigthink.com/videos/maajid-nawaz ... mic-reform

This link says no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM

To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJCC2XXMBo

I do not think it is to the non-Muslim world to apologise to Muslims for the criticism we do of their un-civilized ideology.

Should we stop judging and criticizing those institutions of religion that are leading us away from a more civilized state?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Have you tested the ideology of Islam? Is it good to you?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJATBMebj8

Regards
DL

neilgodfrey
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Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by neilgodfrey » Fri May 11, 2018 11:20 pm

https://vridar.org/2018/05/12/ex-muslim ... -identity/

Do not view the discussion if you go apoplectic over hearing voices of tolerance and understanding.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 pm

I like tolerance. That is the last thing Islam is.

Regards
DL

neilgodfrey
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Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by neilgodfrey » Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 pm
I like tolerance. That is the last thing Islam is.

Regards
DL
It seems you also like listening to ignorant bigots and refusing to listen to people who know what they are talking about.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun May 13, 2018 6:18 am

neilgodfrey wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 pm
I like tolerance. That is the last thing Islam is.

Regards
DL
It seems you also like listening to ignorant bigots and refusing to listen to people who know what they are talking about.
You seem quite hard on yourself.

Is that how you see these folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWAfDo5iT8I

Regards
DL

neilgodfrey
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by neilgodfrey » Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:18 am
neilgodfrey wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 pm
I like tolerance. That is the last thing Islam is.

Regards
DL
It seems you also like listening to ignorant bigots and refusing to listen to people who know what they are talking about.
You seem quite hard on yourself.

Is that how you see these folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWAfDo5iT8I

Regards
DL
You've lost me. What is wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue? You know, reading the literature and listening to the talks of both sides. And keeping an eye out for the evidence. And also for logical fallacies and sound methods of argument?

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu May 24, 2018 7:32 am

neilgodfrey wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:18 am
neilgodfrey wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 pm
I like tolerance. That is the last thing Islam is.

Regards
DL
It seems you also like listening to ignorant bigots and refusing to listen to people who know what they are talking about.
You seem quite hard on yourself.

Is that how you see these folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWAfDo5iT8I

Regards
DL
You've lost me. What is wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue? You know, reading the literature and listening to the talks of both sides. And keeping an eye out for the evidence. And also for logical fallacies and sound methods of argument?
There is nothing wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue.

There is something wrong with not fighting those who conclude that an immoral position is the proper one.

Regards
DL

neilgodfrey
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by neilgodfrey » Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:32 am
neilgodfrey wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:18 am
neilgodfrey wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:25 pm
I like tolerance. That is the last thing Islam is.

Regards
DL
It seems you also like listening to ignorant bigots and refusing to listen to people who know what they are talking about.
You seem quite hard on yourself.

Is that how you see these folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWAfDo5iT8I

Regards
DL
You've lost me. What is wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue? You know, reading the literature and listening to the talks of both sides. And keeping an eye out for the evidence. And also for logical fallacies and sound methods of argument?
There is nothing wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue.

There is something wrong with not fighting those who conclude that an immoral position is the proper one.

Regards
DL
Which of course nobody does. Unless we think they do (believe that a position they consider immoral is proper!) -- in which case we no longer think they have the same human nature as us and so dehumanize them with such an ignorant accusation.

That's why I believe serious specialist researchers should be listened to if we want to understand what the hell is going on in various quarters.

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri May 25, 2018 3:45 am

neilgodfrey wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:32 am
neilgodfrey wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:18 am
neilgodfrey wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:04 pm


It seems you also like listening to ignorant bigots and refusing to listen to people who know what they are talking about.
You seem quite hard on yourself.

Is that how you see these folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWAfDo5iT8I

Regards
DL
You've lost me. What is wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue? You know, reading the literature and listening to the talks of both sides. And keeping an eye out for the evidence. And also for logical fallacies and sound methods of argument?
There is nothing wrong with making an effort to understand both sides of a controversial issue.

There is something wrong with not fighting those who conclude that an immoral position is the proper one.

Regards
DL
Which of course nobody does. Unless we think they do (believe that a position they consider immoral is proper!) -- in which case we no longer think they have the same human nature as us and so dehumanize them with such an ignorant accusation.

That's why I believe serious specialist researchers should be listened to if we want to understand what the hell is going on in various quarters.
??

You do not think that Hitler thought his position moral and right?

You think he knew he was doing wrong?

Regards
DL

neilgodfrey
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by neilgodfrey » Fri May 25, 2018 2:06 pm

Have you read Mein Kampf. Of course Hitler believed his position was the moral and right one. I'm not sure if you understood what I wrote.

Or I don't know what you are trying to say when you ask if I think Hitler knew he was doing wrong. Are you saying that you think Hitler believed or knew he was doing the wrong thing but did it anyway, knowing and believing he was evil?

But what does your point have to do with mine about the usefulness of specialist research into the behaviours etc of various groups?

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