Book review of Gilad Atzmon's The Wandering Who?

[iskander]

He was nailed to the wood
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[iskander]

It was a crime then
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It is a crime now
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[iskander]

Tacitus Histories Book V
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... s/5A*.html

A religious squabble between Romans and Assyrians, Cretans, Egyptians ...?

Was Tacitus anti-Semite?


"many others think that they were an Egyptian stock,... Still others report that they were Assyrian refugees,...

4 1 To establish his influence over this people for all time, Moses introduced new religious practices, quite opposed to those of all other religions. The Jews regard as profane all that we hold sacred; on the other hand, they permit all that we abhor.
...
5 1 Whatever their origin, these rites are maintained by their antiquity: the other customs of the Jews are base and abominable, and owe their persistence to their depravity. For the worst rascals among other peoples,15 renouncing their ancestral religions, always kept sending tribute and contributions to Jerusalem, thereby increasing the wealth of the Jews; again, the Jews are extremely loyal toward one another, and always ready to show compassion, but toward every other people they p183 feel only hate and enmity."

[iskander]

Was Luther anti-Semite?
Another religious squabble
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[iskander]

continued
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[iskander]

Anti-Semitism
"How is this ferocious outburst against the Jews to be explained? To dismiss it as anti-Semitism will not work, because "anti-Semitism" did not exist in antiquity.


This term was coined in 1879 by a German writer who wished to bestow "scientific" respectability on the hatred of Jews by arguing that Jews and Germans belonged to different species of humanity ("races"). But the ancients did not have anything resembling a racial theory. "

FROM THE MACCABEES TO THE MISHNAH, Second Edition, page 39
Shaye J. D. Cohen

[iskander]

Mr Gilad Atzmon is an honest man.


I despise the character assassin that pollutes this forum with hate and slander

[neilgodfrey]

Mr Gilad Atzmon is an honest man.


I despise the character assassin that pollutes this forum with hate and slander

Joe has failed to quote a single line by Gilad Atzmon that demonstrates that he is an antisemite. Instead, Joe cites something by Atzmon that has no such meaning or intent and then adds his own "interpretation" to argue that somehow behind those quoted words lurks and antisemitic mind.

Joe does the same with me when he has likewise accused me maliciously of being an antisemite. He cannot quote a single line of mine to support his accusation so he holds up a quote or post that is patently not antisemitic and then declares it is antisemitic by some bizarre convoluted argument.

God, we saw Joe get off to his brilliant start by accusing Atzmon of selecting the colors for the cover of his book and saying they were close enough to the nazi colours (not red and black but orange and black!) to demonstrate his antisemitism!!!! I then pointed him to a book with very red and black cover attacking supposed antisemites but of course Joe did not respond.

I don't believe Joe bothered to listen/look at any of the youtube interviews with Gilad Atzmon that we posted and did not bring himself to read the quotations we posted by Atzmon that belied his antisemitism accusations.

Joe has presented himself as a very dishonest and hate-filled racist and slanderer against anyone who does not fully turn their backs on international law and the whole world and vigorously cheer on his racist and cruelly unjust and illegal Zionist agenda.

Gilad Atzmon makes his agenda very clear. He does NOT think Jews in Israel should be driven into the sea or go back to Europe or Russian. And nor do I. But he will accuse us of fully supporting terrorists who are reputed to demand these atrocities.

Joe says I don't condemn terrorism but do condemn Israel. Rubbish. I have written some damning historical narratives about Israel that are otherwise not heard by the world -- presumably Joe wants this history taken from the Zionist archives to be censored and hidden from public view -- but I have written far, far more posts on terrorism. Not a single post of mine on terrorism can in the slightest be construed as 'support' for terrorism. Yet Joe lies about the content and balance of my posts.

When Joe makes those sorts of insinuations and accuses people who want equal rights and justice for Jews and Arabs equally of antisemitism he is being dishonest and a thoroughly disreputable person.

Joe, I do not believe, and nor does Gilad Atzmon as you have no excuse not to know by now, that Israelis have no right to exist or live in a just and fair and equitable society with full freedoms of worship and political rights. I asked you if in your mind one must hate Palestinian Arabs in order to prove one is not an antisemite. You have failed to reply. I think your avoidance of the actual words of both me and Gilad -- and replacing our words with your own perverted "interpretations" -- shows you to be a slandering racist filled with hate for anyone who does not loudly cheer for your own tribe when it defies international standards of law and justice and the rights of all humanity.

[JoeWallack]

It's Magic!

JW:
Chapter 17

Tel Aviv University historian Professor Shlomo Sand opens his remarkable study of Jewish nationalism, The Invention of the Jewish People , by quoting Karl Deutsch: ‘A nation … is a group of persons united by a common error about their ancestry and a common dislike of their neighbours.’76 As simple or even as simplistic as it may seem, this quote eloquently summarises modern Jewish nationalism and especially the concept of Jewish identity. It points the finger at the collective mistake Jews tend to make whenever referring to their illusory ‘collective past’ or ‘collective origin’.

That an Israeli who is not just an Israeli but a University professor is free to make this antisemitic comment/book in Israel without harm while no Palestinian or surrounding Arab/Muslim could make a corresponding criticism about Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims without getting lynched is illustrative of The Palestinian Problem. The only thing they hate as much as Israel is self-criticism and this is the advantage Israel holds over Palestinians. Criticism from your enemy does not change/improve you. Criticism from your own does. Hyper criticism of your enemy is counter-productive as it takes focus away from your own faults and makes you feel righteous by comparison when you are really not. You would think Godfree would have learned this lesson by now from the history of Christianity.

As far as Atzmon's upcoming argument against "The Jews"/Israel having a Jewish/Israel history, it's the usual hypocrisy from Atzmon. It would be exponentially easier to argue that there has never been a Palestinian country since that would be telling the truth, on the other hand even the Palestinian Bible acknowledges that there was a Jewish Israel before there were any Muslims. Either argument though is a stupid secondary argument, that Israel previously existed and Palestine did not. You've got about the same numbers on each side, both want their own country, it doesn't matter what the history of their predecessor countries was.

In his book, Sand posits a serious doubt that the Jewish people ever existed as a nation or race, ever shared a common origin. Instead, they are a colourful mix of groups that, at various stages throughout history, adopted the Jewish religion. So when were the Jewish people ‘invented’? Sand’s answer: ‘At a certain stage in the 19th century, intellectuals of Jewish origin in Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, took upon themselves the task of inventing a people ‘retrospectively,’ out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people.’77 Accordingly, the ‘Jewish people’ is a made-up notion, consisting of an imaginary past with very little to back it up forensically, historically or textually. Furthermore, Sand, who elaborated on early sources from antiquity, comes to the conclusion that Jewish exile is also a myth, and that the present-day Palestinians are far more likely to be the descendants of the ancient Semitic people in Judea/Canaan than the current, predominantly Khazarian-origin, Ashkenazi crowd, which he admits he belongs to himself.

JW:
Did this guy used to write for "Fox News"? He spends all those Chapters supposedly demonstrating that for thousand of years the evil and wicked "The Jews" have controlled the world due to the malady of Jewish Identity Disease caused by inability to assimilate with the only identifiable source being "Jewish". Now in New World order to demonstrate that there is no Jewish history there were no real Jews until recently. He correctly observes that in general Palestinians have probably not moved around as much as Jews in the last two thousand years so racially they are generally closer to the inhabitants of Israel 2,000 years ago but I thought he didn't like race based arguments. And in order to argue that there was no Jewish history he has to become a history revisionist (surprise). No Jewish exiles?

Hitler Won After All

Highlighted subtitle. Always the antisemitic opportunist. Probably put a momentary smile on Amin al-Husseini's face when he read this in Heill.

Though ‘cosmopolitans’ tend to dismiss other people’s national inclinations, Jewish cosmopolitans, for some reason, insist on maintaining their own right to ‘self-determination’.

Just substitute "Jewish" with "Palestinian" and you have an even better argument. Or even better, don't make either stupid secondary argument. Just try to negotiate how Jerusalem will be split.

There Is No Jewish History It is an established fact that virtually no Jewish history texts were written between the first and early-nineteenth centuries.

In addition to the lying about no written Jewish history you again have the hypocrisy that it is the Palestinian side that is exponentially more likely to base their position on religious beliefs.

More worrying was the fact that instead of a supernatural entity (namely, God) to command them to invade and commit genocide against the ‘Promised Land’s’ indigenous inhabitants, in the Jewish national revival project it was they themselves – Herzl, Jabotinsky, Weizmann, Ben-Gurion, Sharon, Peres, Barak, Netanyahu, Liebermann, etc – who would decide to expel and kill.

Again, as far as intentions, much easier to attribute this attitude towards Arabs, especially since you have multiple matching historical quotes to use. Trying to demonize the other side is a long way from sincerely negotiating. Did I mention that The War of Independence was a defensive war.

The Jewish nationalists took their project one step further, binding themselves into a blood chain with their mythical forefathers; Hebrew, formerly a sacred tongue, became an everyday spoken language. German Early Romantics never went that far.

Always compared to the Germans. Don't forget about the feminist lesbians. And this time worse than the Germans. We're number vun!

For them, Athens stood for the universal, an epic chapter of humanity and humanism. Jerusalem, on the contrary, was a grand chapter of tribal barbarism, a representation of the banal, non-universal, monotheistic, merciless God, the killer of elder and infant alike.

At least it's not a German comparison.

Though most contemporary Jews are utterly convinced that their ancestors are the Biblical Israelites who were brutally exiled by the Romans, the truth is that contemporary Jews have nothing to do with these ancient Israelites, who were never even sent into exile, the Roman exile is just another Jewish myth.

Atzmon, just keep talking, you're doing great.

If the Palestinians are the ‘real Jews’, then, who are those people who call themselves Jews? Sand’s answer is simple and sensible: ‘The people did not spread, but the Jewish religion spread. Judaism was a converting religion. Contrary to popular opinion, in early Judaism there was a great thirst to convert others.’84 Monotheistic religions, being less tolerant than polytheistic ones, have an impetus to expand. Jewish expansionism in its early days was not just similar to Christian proselytising, but it was actually Jewish expansionism that planted the zeal for conversion in early Christian thought and practice.

The Palestinians are the real Jews. Do they know that. If they are than why don't they suffer from Identity Politics? Replacement Ideology, now where have I heard that before.

The deep-rooted source of the large Jewish community in Spain was those Berber soldiers who converted to Judaism.’86

And there are those who claim that Atzmon is not funny.

As one would expect, Sand approves of the largely accepted assumption that the Judaicised Khazars constitute the main origins of Jewish communities in Eastern Europe, which he calls the ‘Yiddish Nation’. When asked why these Jews happen to speak Yiddish – largely regarded as a German medieval dialect – he answers: ‘The Jews were a class of people dependent on the German bourgeoisie in the east, and thus they adopted German words.’87

Interesting.

Sand leaves us with the inevitable conclusion that contemporary Jews do not have a common origin, that their Semitic origins are a myth. Jews have no origin in Palestine whatsoever, and therefore their act of so-called ‘return’ must be realised as pretext for a tribal expansionist invasion.

Always with the extreme conclusion.

Although Jewish-ness does not constitute any racial continuum, the Jewish identity is racially-orientated. Many Jews, even secular ones, continue to regard mixed marriage as the ultimate threat. Furthermore, in spite of modernisation and secularisation, the vast majority of secular Jews continue to enact the blood ritual of circumcision.

"The Jews" are the ones who are obsessed with race. I already got it.

Unlike the ‘new historians’ who ‘unveil’ a truth known to every Palestinian toddler, i.e. the truth of being ethnically cleansed, Sand’s body of work and thought may open the door to further research into the meaning of Jewish nationalism, Jewish identity and Jewish politics. Sand’s critical reading of Jewish history sets the framework for further discussion of the Jewish notion of historicity and temporality. Understanding these two crucial notions will provide the intellectual key to dismantling Jewish political power and may even help Jews to redeem themselves of their very dangerous political discourse.

Sure sounds like all Jews or at least most.

Unlike the ‘new historians’ who ‘unveil’ a truth known to every Palestinian toddler, i.e. the truth of being ethnically cleansed, Sand’s body of work and thought may open the door to further research into the meaning of Jewish nationalism, Jewish identity and Jewish politics. Sand’s critical reading of Jewish history sets the framework for further discussion of the Jewish notion of historicity and temporality. Understanding these two crucial notions will provide the intellectual key to dismantling Jewish political power and may even help Jews to redeem themselves of their very dangerous political discourse.

"The Jewish Problem" is based on Jews and publicly stating that you are against The Jews because they are evil and wicked. But magically you can not be accused of being against The Jews so there is no such thing as antisemitism. It's Magic!

The ideological enemies of Israel are engaged in a bitter conflict with the state and it’s supporters. Yet the issue is not just Israel, its army or its leadership. It is actually a war against an exclusive ideology, a phantasm that has co-opted the West and, at least momentarily, diverted it from its humanist inclinations and Athenian aspirations. To fight a spirit is far more difficult than fighting people, if only because one may first have to fight its traces within oneself. If we want to fight Jerusalem, we may have to confront the Jerusalem within.

"bitter conflict", "war", "fight", "fighting". But he's against violence (even though he supports Hamas and Hezbollah). It's Magic!


Joseph

The New Porphyry