Is God competent or incompetent?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:29 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:02 pm
In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.
That's not true. That's New Age pig swill.
Nice argument style.

You call my description a lie yet do not correct it by showing your description of what Gnostic Christian beliefs are.

Ok. You win this debate.

Oh wait, you did not put an argument or view. You cannot lose in your own pathetic mind even as you did not do anything to win.

Regards
DL

Joseph D. L.
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Joseph D. L. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:50 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:29 am
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:02 pm
In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.
That's not true. That's New Age pig swill.
Nice argument style.

You call my description a lie yet do not correct it by showing your description of what Gnostic Christian beliefs are.

Ok. You win this debate.

Oh wait, you did not put an argument or view. You cannot lose in your own pathetic mind even as you did not do anything to win.

Regards
DL
I didn't see the need to since I didn't care enough, but if you insist...

Gnostic Christians were as incredulous and superstitious as any primitive cult or religion of yesteryear. They did not engage in critical thinking, but instead attempted to argue their beliefs through liberal rhetorical license.

This idea that Gnosticism somehow elevates one beyond the practical realm of intellectual honesty was a product of occult studies and pseudo-esotericism. In short, New Ageism.

What's more, your above definition is a definition self applied. This shows a predisposed bias to promote such a belief as being better than what it actually is: a primitive superstition.

And then you say this...
... defines the word God the way the ancients did...
Firstly, why should we care what "the ancients" thought about anything?

Secondly, how are their (differing) beliefs about gods and the world relevant or applicable to our modern civilization?

Thirdly, Gnostic Christianity (modern) is in no way similar to the Gnosticism of the first three centuries of Christianity. It's a belief that died off in the sixth century. So any claim of revitalizing it just leaves it open to the believers own prejudices.

Also notice how you personally insulted me, whereas I did not insult your person. But I assume that for you, belief and person are synonymous.

I will not be engaging with you in future. I wish you luck in your trade.

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 456
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:22 am

Hit and run. Ok.

For the lurkers then.

"it actually is: a primitive superstition."

All supernaturally based religions are based on superstition.

Those religions that seek knowledge and wisdom and do not include supernatural beliefs, which includes Gnostic Christianity, are not based on the supernatural but the natural.

Regards
DL

iskander
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
A commentator of the NT (biblical scholar) writes in The gospel of Matthew, NICNT, R.T. France, pg 262 : "This rather obscure little saying [ 6: 22-232] seems to be using a wordplay"


It would help to understand Gnostic Christianity if you could explain why this verse was chosen as an informative summary.
PS I have listened to the video posted in your reply
Last edited by iskander on Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iskander
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:43 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Consider John 14: 8-9 : 8 Philip said to him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.’ 9Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”?


How does a modern Christian Gnostic man/woman love Jesus?

iskander
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:50 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Romans 8:29,30"


Paul is only a commentator of the work of Jesus.
What do Christian Gnostics make of words such as foreknown, God calling, justification, glorified?

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:53 am

iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
A commentator of the NT (biblical scholar) writes in The gospel of Matthew, NICNT, R.T. France, pg 262 : "This rather obscure little saying [ 6: 22-232] seems to be using a wordplay"


It would help to understand Gnostic Christianity if you could explain why this verse was chosen as an informative summary.
PS I have listened to the video posted in your reply
If wordplay, it could have many interpretations, and we would be reading with our biases.

We would be reading in what we want and perhaps creating a new moral of the story.

That happened with Eden, where Jews see man elevated and Christians see man fall, all while calling Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary. Rather a conflicted view. No?

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:27 am

iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:43 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Consider John 14: 8-9 : 8 Philip said to him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.’ 9Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”?


How does a modern Christian Gnostic man/woman love Jesus?
The key words here are keep my words and who, what where Father.

To a Gnostic Christian, --- looking at Michelangelo's creation painting, --- the God the Father is in the right hemisphere of the brain of the Adam/Jesus archetypal non-divine man on the left. That is Jesus showing us where the spark of God is in his own brain/mind/consciousness.

Many think that Gnostic Christians do not like matter. That is what the Christians wanted people to think but it never really stuck given where the spark of God shines within us.

It does not fit our know scriptures.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

That same Father spoken of above is the representation of our Father used in Freud and Jung's Father Complex. It is the seat of our instincts which is the source of Gnosis/knowledge of our full self at a subconscious level.

On your loving Jesus question.
John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Loving Jesus is just loving yourself.
Jesus, or whatever mental image you have of this archetypal good man, is just there to spiritually walk with you to your own spark of God. You might not have your face on that archetype going in, but you have it coming out. That is the message. You are God as all God's are man made. Only you can make you the ideal/God that you would honor. That is the rebirth of the mind to a Christ consciousness.

Jesus said, seek God. He never said seek me. He said honor God. Not honor me.

In saying, I and the Father are one, seen me you have seen the Father, which is Jesus' self created Father,and God, he is asking us to look at his now spiritual side in his brain, recognize that it is there and get to seeking the only God you can ever truly know, yourself.

Gnostic Jesus was questioned as to what sees the vision?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... /mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'

For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The treasure is in you.

Regards
DL

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:52 am

iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:50 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Romans 8:29,30"


Paul is only a commentator of the work of Jesus.
What do Christian Gnostics make of words such as foreknown, God calling, justification, glorified?
I adlib Jesus.
Have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Jesus is declaring that he has taken the judgement seat from God and is now free of the restrictions of his instincts.

But unlike the imaginary supernatural Gods, we can die.

IOW, we cannot live by the rules of an imaginary God. Cathars named their holiest Parfait thus showing that man was to be his own God. This follows natural law and not supernatural law. I do the same with my name in other places, and yes, many just attack the name.

Your adjectives "foreknown, God calling, justification, glorified?", all pertain to your new mental state.

Felling good about yourself, you foreknow that your way of thinking is ok and others will follow your thinking pattern.
Apotheosis justifies but does not glorify. Jesus glorified the Father, not himself. He wanted us to know his inside and not his outside.

Glorification can only be given. It cannot be taken. In the apotheosis definition, I take out divine as divinity can only be given. Taking it is like believing a myth you just made up.

Justification is universal to a Gnostic Christian. The world cannot help but be what it is and that is self-justifying.

If all of us had a choice to be in a better world, we would of course make that choice. We do not have any choices that exceed the bounds of nature and physics. That is why Gnostic Christianity has no supernatural content in our beliefs, even though we do have tons of it in our myths.

Regards
DL

iskander
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:56 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:53 am
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
A commentator of the NT (biblical scholar) writes in The gospel of Matthew, NICNT, R.T. France, pg 262 : "This rather obscure little saying [ 6: 22-23] seems to be using a wordplay"


It would help to understand Gnostic Christianity if you could explain why this verse was chosen as an informative summary.
PS I have listened to the video posted in your reply
If wordplay, it could have many interpretations, and we would be reading with our biases.

We would be reading in what we want and perhaps creating a new moral of the story.

That happened with Eden, where Jews see man elevated and Christians see man fall, all while calling Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary. Rather a conflicted view. No?

Regards
DL
So, which one is the interpretation of Matthew 6:22? . Have Christian Gnostics ( CG) got one of their own?

PS The expulsion from the Garden of Eden was very bad news in all the religions of the book; it meant 'Paradise Lost' for all those religions of the book.--- What do CG say about the Fall , aka the death of the soul?

Re: Who laid the blame of "original sin" upon Adam?
Who laid the blame of "original sin" upon Adam?
The sin of Adam and dead souls , Philo on Adam' s fall .

Philo of Alexandria , allegorical interpretation 1

XXXIII. (105) Accordingly God says, "In the day in which ye eat of it ye shall die the death." And yet, though they have eaten of it, they not only do not die, but they even beget children, and are the causes of life to other beings besides themselves. What, then, are we to say? Surely that death is of two kinds; the one being the death of the man, the other the peculiar death of the soul--now the death of the man is the separation of his soul from his body, but the death of the soul is the destruction of virtue and the admission of vice;

(106) and consequently God calls that not merely "to die," but "to die the death;" showing that he is speaking not of common death, but of that peculiar and especial death which is the death of the soul, buried in its passions and in all kinds of evil

(107) When, therefore, God says, "to die the death," you must remark that he is speaking of that death which is inflicted as punishment, and not of that which exists by the original ordinance of nature. The natural death is that one by which the soul is separated from the body. But the one which is inflicted as a punishment, is when the soul dies according to the life of virtue, and lives only according to the life of vice.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2947&hilit=philo&start=30

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