If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

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Gnostic Bishop
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If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:48 pm

If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pnra8Ke1So

Not caring for the poor killed Rome.

Is Rome II dying?

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 pm

If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pnra8Ke1So

Not caring for the poor killed Rome.

Is Rome II dying?

Regards
DL

Thor
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Thor » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:00 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:48 pm
If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
They should if it was. But socialism is not simply caring for people. Socialism is only one system that can support a society like other systems also can do. There are strengths as well as weaknesses with this system as there are with other systems. Americans seems to have a very simplistic view of socialism across the political spectrum.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:05 pm

Thor wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:00 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:48 pm
If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
They should if it was. But socialism is not simply caring for people. Socialism is only one system that can support a society like other systems also can do. There are strengths as well as weaknesses with this system as there are with other systems. Americans seems to have a very simplistic view of socialism across the political spectrum.
I agree with your last. That is likely due to the dumbing down that the government has been doing for some time now.

In the social democratic balance that most Western countries are doing, including supply of a social medical and education systems, what do you see as the weakness?

Regards
DL

Thor
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Thor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:13 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:05 pm

In the social democratic balance that most Western countries are doing, including supply of a social medical and education systems, what do you see as the weakness?

Regards
DL
Well, the intention behind the working class pulling each others weight when needed was of mutual benefit. Individualism and self-realization have no place in such system, you keep it to your spare time. Social medical and education systems as you call them, exists to secure a productive population. Healthy worker = productive worker, Educated worker = productive worker. In good times you put into the system, in bad times you get back from the system. Stability is security.

Do you see the keywords here? Productive worker. Healthy worker. Privileges AND duties.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:05 pm

That is likely due to the dumbing down that the government has been doing for some time now.
How does the government dumb people down?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:36 pm

Thor wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:13 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:05 pm

In the social democratic balance that most Western countries are doing, including supply of a social medical and education systems, what do you see as the weakness?

Regards
DL
Well, the intention behind the working class pulling each others weight when needed was of mutual benefit. Individualism and self-realization have no place in such system, you keep it to your spare time. Social medical and education systems as you call them, exists to secure a productive population. Healthy worker = productive worker, Educated worker = productive worker. In good times you put into the system, in bad times you get back from the system. Stability is security.

Do you see the keywords here? Productive worker. Healthy worker. Privileges AND duties.
Absolutely.

Do you see that if all are not included in societies thinking, that you are throwing the sick, unprivileged an weakest of our society under the bus?

As I said, social programs are caring programs and I do nit see any caring in what you put.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:05 pm

That is likely due to the dumbing down that the government has been doing for some time now.
How does the government dumb people down?
In a variety of ways which show the results in the U.S. losing ground to the rest of the world.

This link entertainingly hits the nail on the head and the second shows another way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo&app=desktop

Regards
DL

Thor
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Thor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:00 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:36 pm


In a variety of ways which show the results in the U.S. losing ground to the rest of the world.

This link entertainingly hits the nail on the head and the second shows another way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo&app=desktop

Regards
DL
All I see is the rejection of personal responsibility.

Thor
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Thor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Thor wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:00 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:36 pm


In a variety of ways which show the results in the U.S. losing ground to the rest of the world.

This link entertainingly hits the nail on the head and the second shows another way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo&app=desktop

Regards
DL
All I see is the rejection of personal responsibility.
To elaborate. You get the society you create. You know, socialism. What you imply is that it could be imposed, and we all know where such foolish ideas lead.

neilgodfrey
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by neilgodfrey » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:37 pm

Thor wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:13 am
Individualism and self-realization have no place in such system, you keep it to your spare time. Social medical and education systems as you call them, exists to secure a productive population. Healthy worker = productive worker, Educated worker = productive worker. In good times you put into the system, in bad times you get back from the system. Stability is security.

Do you see the keywords here? Productive worker. Healthy worker. Privileges AND duties.
When we read what Karl Marx wrote about human nature and society we see that what you have described is the fruits of a capitalist system (according to Marx). It was capitalism, according to Marx, that reduced the person to the level of a "worker" such that the person became alienated from his true self and full human potential. He became merely a means to production, a form of capital, existing only to produce and add value to things.

Interestingly our public education system originated at the same time as industrialization and was modelled on the military. Children were trained in ways similar to the military: obedience, indoctrination, mass organization.... It was designed to produce workers who were patient, compliant and productive workers for the industrial societies at a time of intense industrial and military rivalry.

The need for a disease-free society goes without saying (except, it appears to this outsider, in the United States.)

Thor
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Re: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Post by Thor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Well. It was the working class who demanded the welfare state to insure the working class. It was a sensible economic system. It worked in Scandinavia because of a homogeneous population. Shared effort, shared goals, shared interests. Now think, how would that work in the U.S.
Bernie and his followers are simply delusional.

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