If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
Nasruddin
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:47 pm
Was Jesus guilty of anything and did God not send him to suffer and dies for us, the guilty?

Was that moral of God?

Regards
DL
Are you asking if was Jesus guilty of something and did God punish him?

As I noted, almost all of Jesus' adult life is left unrecorded. He approached John the Baptist to seek forgiveness for his sins through baptism and prayer. Was his sin forgiven by God?

Nasruddin
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:22 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:49 pm
When you ignore them, yes.

Regards
DL
I did not ignore them. I expanded on them, and found that the use of them for your argument was inadequate. You then proceeded to brush aside that said expansion and claimed that any further Biblical quoting would be a waste of time.

That was a shame.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:29 pm

Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:18 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:47 pm
Was Jesus guilty of anything and did God not send him to suffer and dies for us, the guilty?

Was that moral of God?

Regards
DL
Are you asking if was Jesus guilty of something and did God punish him?

As I noted, almost all of Jesus' adult life is left unrecorded. He approached John the Baptist to seek forgiveness for his sins through baptism and prayer. Was his sin forgiven by God?
To Christians, Jesus is 1/3rd God and fully God somehow so if smart, sure he forgave himself.

Baptism is to forgive sin so Jesus must have sinned then.

I cannot write my question any plainer.

Care to answer it?

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:31 pm

Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:22 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:49 pm
When you ignore them, yes.

Regards
DL
I did not ignore them. I expanded on them, and found that the use of them for your argument was inadequate. You then proceeded to brush aside that said expansion and claimed that any further Biblical quoting would be a waste of time.

That was a shame.
Perhaps more forthcoming and honest answers to the issues would cause less shame.

Regards
DL

Nasruddin
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:59 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:54 pm
Yes.

Can a murderer repent and forgive himself?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Note how one is saved through repentance alone, which I equate with self-forgiveness.

Do you see it that way and if not, how do you read that quote?

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Does this last not say that all of us are saved or do you think that God's will that all be saved can be thwarted?

Regards
DL
Repentance is not forgiveness. Repentance is the seeking of forgiveness.

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him

You need to repent first, and only then can you be forgiven.

2 Peter 3:9 & 1 Timothy 2:4 are saying that God can (and is wiling to) wait as long as it takes for some people to feel repentant, and then seek forgiveness from him.

Nasruddin
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:00 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:29 pm
Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:18 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:47 pm
Was Jesus guilty of anything and did God not send him to suffer and dies for us, the guilty?

Was that moral of God?

Regards
DL
Are you asking if was Jesus guilty of something and did God punish him?

As I noted, almost all of Jesus' adult life is left unrecorded. He approached John the Baptist to seek forgiveness for his sins through baptism and prayer. Was his sin forgiven by God?
To Christians, Jesus is 1/3rd God and fully God somehow so if smart, sure he forgave himself.

Baptism is to forgive sin so Jesus must have sinned then.

I cannot write my question any plainer.

Care to answer it?

Regards
DL
Not all Christians believe in the Trinity. Not all readers of the Testaments believe that Jesus died as a punishment.

Nasruddin
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:04 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:31 pm
Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:22 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:49 pm
When you ignore them, yes.

Regards
DL
I did not ignore them. I expanded on them, and found that the use of them for your argument was inadequate. You then proceeded to brush aside that said expansion and claimed that any further Biblical quoting would be a waste of time.

That was a shame.
Perhaps more forthcoming and honest answers to the issues would cause less shame.

Regards
DL
Perhaps a bit of humility would see discussion as beneficial, rather than a 'waste of time'.

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:36 pm

Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:59 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:54 pm
Yes.

Can a murderer repent and forgive himself?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Note how one is saved through repentance alone, which I equate with self-forgiveness.

Do you see it that way and if not, how do you read that quote?

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Does this last not say that all of us are saved or do you think that God's will that all be saved can be thwarted?

Regards
DL
Repentance is not forgiveness. Repentance is the seeking of forgiveness.
Your first is true.

Repentance is an internal feeling of remorse. The one who has first dibs on forgiving forgiveness is the victim and the one who is repenting will know this. If that person is available for reparations then the repentant one would seek him out. If not available, then self-forgiveness can be granted. Even a murderer can self-forgive after he repents.
Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him

You need to repent first, and only then can you be forgiven.
2 Peter 3:9 & 1 Timothy 2:4 are saying that God can (and is wiling to) wait as long as it takes for some people to feel repentant, and then seek forgiveness from him.
Yes. Repentance is a requirement for true forgiveness. Lip service will not do.
That repentance and forgiveness is person to person and God is redundant as he cannot be victimized or sinned against as he likely does not exist.

There are no supernatural beliefs in Gnostic Christianity. Gnostic means to know deeply and nothing can be know of the supernatural so it should be completely ignored.

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:38 pm

Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:00 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:29 pm
Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:18 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:47 pm
Was Jesus guilty of anything and did God not send him to suffer and dies for us, the guilty?

Was that moral of God?

Regards
DL
Are you asking if was Jesus guilty of something and did God punish him?

As I noted, almost all of Jesus' adult life is left unrecorded. He approached John the Baptist to seek forgiveness for his sins through baptism and prayer. Was his sin forgiven by God?
To Christians, Jesus is 1/3rd God and fully God somehow so if smart, sure he forgave himself.

Baptism is to forgive sin so Jesus must have sinned then.

I cannot write my question any plainer.

Care to answer it?

Regards
DL
Not all Christians believe in the Trinity. Not all readers of the Testaments believe that Jesus died as a punishment.
You forget the apostles creed.

But you are correct in that there are many Christians by name and not by belief or actions.

Regards
DL

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:47 pm

Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:04 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:31 pm
Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:22 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:49 pm
When you ignore them, yes.

Regards
DL
I did not ignore them. I expanded on them, and found that the use of them for your argument was inadequate. You then proceeded to brush aside that said expansion and claimed that any further Biblical quoting would be a waste of time.

That was a shame.
Perhaps more forthcoming and honest answers to the issues would cause less shame.

Regards
DL
Perhaps a bit of humility would see discussion as beneficial, rather than a 'waste of time'.
I am olds and cranky and tired of having Christians with inferior morals not understand their immorality and ignore good morals for their get out of hell free card.

Humility, to me, is a sign of lack of confidence in ones ideas and beliefs.
I am more fundamental than any Christian fundamental as I have had to become the bully they are.

I try to do it with more finesse and less outright ignorance.

You should have seen me when I came out. I was hell on wheels and have toned down quite a bit.

As John Lennon said, the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian and he was absolutely right. If you go by the book. I do know that I am not the only good Christian in actions, but a good Christian will either drop his immoral religion or become a Gnostic Christian and try to talk sense into his senseless friends.

Regards
DL

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