Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:18 am

iskander wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:35 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:39 am
iskander wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:02 am
He was chosen before the creation of the world
Certain themes in Judaism have been treated by Jewish authors and sages as pre-existent in the sense that they were created in the sixth day of Genesis. Among them they mentioned the Torah, Repentance, the Garden of Eden and Gehenna, God’s Throne of Glory, the Fathers, Israel, the Temple and the Messiah.

The Messiah first appears as pre-existent in the First Book of Enoch which was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic about 150 B.C.E From that period on, the concept of the Messiah who was created in the six days of creation, or even prior to them or who was born at variously stated subsequent dates and was then hidden to await his time, became a standard feature of jewish messianic eschatology.


The concept of the pre-existence of the Messiah accords with the general Talmudic view which holds that “The Holy One, blessed be He, prepares the remedy before the wound” ( B.Meg. 13b) .
The names by which the Messiah is called are revealing. In the first book of Enoch he is called, first of all, “Head of Days”, an epithet alluding to his pre-existence. In the same source he is also called “Son of Man, an old biblical appellation heavy with theosophical symbolism...


In any case this multiplicity of names indicates one thing very clearly: The image of the Messiah was very much in the forefront of rabbinical- and undoubtedly also popular- thought from the second century BCE on.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78&p=3214&hilit=patai#p3214
I agree, but not the type of messiah that Jesus was. That is why the Jews rejected Jesus as messiah.

Their better view was ignored by the usurping Christians who wanted the Jewish god but not his policies.

Stupid Christians went the wrong way.

Regards
DL
Why do you think the “usurping Christians wanted the Jewish God”?
The same reason most want a god. Security, even if it is a prick of a God like Yahweh.

It just happened that the Romans had already shown respect for the People of the Book and the usurpers wanted to profit from that.

Regards
DL

iskander
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by iskander » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:29 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:18 am


...

The same reason most want a god. Security, even if it is a prick of a God like Yahweh.

It just happened that the Romans had already shown respect for the People of the Book and the usurpers wanted to profit from that.

Regards
DL
There is very little profit to be had from the respect of Tacitus et al.

Why do you call Christians " usurpers"?

Usurper ---A person who takes a position of power or importance illegally or by force.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/usurper

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:39 pm

iskander wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:29 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:18 am


...

The same reason most want a god. Security, even if it is a prick of a God like Yahweh.

It just happened that the Romans had already shown respect for the People of the Book and the usurpers wanted to profit from that.

Regards
DL
There is very little profit to be had from the respect of Tacitus et al.

Why do you call Christians " usurpers"?

Usurper ---A person who takes a position of power or importance illegally or by force.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/usurper
I use the term usurper because Christianity would be nothing if they had not stolen the Jewish god and made him their own.
They did the same with the Chrestian god.

Regards
DL

iskander
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by iskander » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:20 am

Professor Cook writes in his book Modern Jews Engage:

Christianity, still deeply bonded to Judaism, accepted and based itself on the Jewish scriptures...Replicating Judaism’s synagogue structure and its networking enabled Christianity to offer a cohesiveness that pagan religions (commonly organized as local enclaves) could not match.

Moreover, Judaism at this point in its history, was modelling a creative and successful missionary style that also allowed for attracting and accepting in a kind of secondary status, Gentiles whom it styled “God-fearers”. These shared the faith, the worship and the ethical commitment of Judaism but were not obliged to adult male circumcision or to full compliance with the dietary laws, and thus were not full converts.

When Christianity emerged, however, it promised Gentiles acceptance as full members while allowing them to bypass the barriers of Jewish dietary laws and circumcision. God-fearers became key agents in publicizing Christianity’s appeal among the pagans.

Professor Rabbi Michael J. Cook
Modern Jews Engage the New Testament
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=97

Jewish Lights Publishing Woodstock, Vermont, 2008

Pages 38ff
Both Muslims and Christians are rooted in Judaism. but this development is evolution and it is a natural growth of ideas.
.
To call evolution "theft" is dogmatic.

iskander
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by iskander » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:17 am

They did the same with the Chrestian god.


Who or what is "the Chrestian god"?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:17 am

iskander wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:17 am
They did the same with the Chrestian god.


Who or what is "the Chrestian god"?
Thanks for both replies.

The Chrestian god and the Gnostic Christian god as well as the god of the Karaite and Buddhists are all named the same way and for the same reasons. They are all human based and not supernaturally based religions.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

iskander
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by iskander » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 am

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves
Protagoras
"Man is the measure of all things", interpreted by Plato to mean that there is no absolute truth, but that which individuals deem to be the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagoras


Are the Modern Gnostics Christians saying the same as Protagoras is reported to have said in ancient times ?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:59 am

iskander wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 am
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves
Protagoras
"Man is the measure of all things", interpreted by Plato to mean that there is no absolute truth, but that which individuals deem to be the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagoras


Are the Modern Gnostics Christians saying the same as Protagoras is reported to have said in ancient times ?
I think so.

Gnostic Christians are naturalists.

In the natural world, of which we are just one of many types, all types look to their best for leadership and guidance.
Those in the revealed religions go against nature by positing that we are to take our guidance form a supernatural and fictional character. They ignore that the laws of a heaven could not possibly be identical to the laws on earth.

The foolish notion of, --- on earth as it is in heaven, --- or as above so below, --- is impossible.

That is why, I think, Gnostic Christians see heaven all around us and that is the only way those sayings can become true.

Regards
DL

iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by iskander » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:32 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:59 am
iskander wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 am
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves
Protagoras
"Man is the measure of all things", interpreted by Plato to mean that there is no absolute truth, but that which individuals deem to be the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagoras


Are the Modern Gnostics Christians saying the same as Protagoras is reported to have said in ancient times ?
I think so.

Gnostic Christians are naturalists.

In the natural world, of which we are just one of many types, all types look to their best for leadership and guidance.
Those in the revealed religions go against nature by positing that we are to take our guidance form a supernatural and fictional character. They ignore that the laws of a heaven could not possibly be identical to the laws on earth.

The foolish notion of, --- on earth as it is in heaven, --- or as above so below, --- is impossible.

That is why, I think, Gnostic Christians see heaven all around us and that is the only way those sayings can become true.

Regards
DL
Thank you. I understand now at last!. :cheers:

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Christians judge god as good. Gnostic Christians judge god as evil. Which religion is correct?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:56 am

iskander wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:32 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:59 am
iskander wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:48 am
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves
Protagoras
"Man is the measure of all things", interpreted by Plato to mean that there is no absolute truth, but that which individuals deem to be the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagoras


Are the Modern Gnostics Christians saying the same as Protagoras is reported to have said in ancient times ?
I think so.

Gnostic Christians are naturalists.

In the natural world, of which we are just one of many types, all types look to their best for leadership and guidance.
Those in the revealed religions go against nature by positing that we are to take our guidance form a supernatural and fictional character. They ignore that the laws of a heaven could not possibly be identical to the laws on earth.

The foolish notion of, --- on earth as it is in heaven, --- or as above so below, --- is impossible.

That is why, I think, Gnostic Christians see heaven all around us and that is the only way those sayings can become true.

Regards
DL
Thank you. I understand now at last!. :cheers:
Sweet.

Regards
DL

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