Gnostic Bishop wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:12 am
Thanks for this [DCH].
You did not answer the question though.
Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?
Most churches and mosques are run by men who impose dress codes and decide on what the punishment will be for infractions. In Islam, to the point of Honor Killing.
Is there any honor in using force to have people comply with un-proven religious customs, or killing the women who refuse?
So, you do not consider it "honorable" to "dictate" a dress code? Your language is a little "loaded," which I did not notice at first. Why the chip on your shoulder?
Amish boys & girls do not join the church until they are baptised as adults. They believe in baptism as a member of their faith only after making a dedication to follow god in their traditions. Until then (around age 21 for most) they are in a period they call "rumspragah" (sp?) which means "free room" of something like that. Lost of Amish girls go to bars or clubs, wear makeup, smoke cigarettes and maybe try drugs a bit. Boys also smoke, try drugs, get into fights, maybe buy a car which they hide in the family cornfield even though their parents usually know about it. One Amish man who ran an interior trim business told me they loose about 15% of their youth (that means they do not become members). They might decide to go Baptist or low order Mennonite, or nothing at all, and there is no penalty for this kind of thing. They have followed their conscience.
I do not know whether Islam (or one or more of the variants of Islam out there) has a tradition for adult "confirmation," although I don't think so. It is the more fanatical factions of Islam who blow up mosques of other factions in suicide attacks. White "crackers" types have also attacked people they despise, lynching them in the "old days" or "cracking" heads. We used to call them the KKK. Honor killing, where it occurs in Islam, is cultural. I think that Saudi rulers recognized that westerners have different cultural values, so they have the US military personnel (including female soldiers driving cars, etc.) in bases that are isolated from Saudi society to avoid clashes. Shopping malls, mixed bathing pools and beaches, and all that. Sucide bombers do not seem to target these facilities.
But like I mentioned before, we in the USA had a tradition, only about 100 years ago, in which women were property of men and a man had the right to beat his wife for no good reason. We consider ourselves more sophisticated than that today, although the sexual harassment scandals show that many men still like to push around women like they owned all they can see. But I have worked for or seen many managers (men and women) who were tyrants, building mini-feifdoms and bullying their employees, regardless of sex, relentlessly to advance their agendas, played out like a game of chess with the employees as pawns. I do hate all game players, men or women, who callously play their games with human lives. Sometimes I can sympathize with anarchists who want to tear down that whole crappy system in hopes that people, allowed to the inherent good in everybody, will build a better society, but I think this is probably just a pipe dream.
DCH (back to work)