If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
Nasruddin
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:52 am

Humility is more fun that. It can be acquiescence that other people are just too plain dumb to see sense, so move on and let them live in their delusions.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:33 am

Nasruddin wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:52 am
Humility is more fun that. It can be acquiescence that other people are just too plain dumb to see sense, so move on and let them live in their delusions.
See what the attitude live and let live and allow evil to grow has wrought.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

You have forgotten the Golden Rule.

Regards
DL

Nasruddin
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:54 pm

What did Jesus say about reciprocity?

"But I say to you that hear:
"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.
Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again.
And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful."


Jesus taught to aid the sinner, whilst the good can fend for themselves. And the motive for this is to benefit yourself, not the greater good of mankind.

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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:32 am

Nasruddin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:54 pm
What did Jesus say about reciprocity?

"But I say to you that hear:
"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.
Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again.
And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful."


Jesus taught to aid the sinner, whilst the good can fend for themselves. And the motive for this is to benefit yourself, not the greater good of mankind.
Jesus also said to be one of his people, you would have to give everything you own away and follow him.

It is hard and impossible to give or lend anything when you have already given it all away.

Jesus also said that loving your neighbor as yourself and doing to others as you would want done to you was the best commandment. Commandment here means suggestion as one cannot be commanded to do unto others.

Some of what you put as good is evil. Like rewarding evil with good.

If you do something evil, should you be rewarded with good?

If you steal, or rape someone, should you be rewarded for doing so?

Show how that works please.

Regards
DL

Nasruddin
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:27 pm

I'm quoting Jesus, who clearly taught to reward sinners with goodness, and even to help them in their sins.

Jesus' command was to love your neighbour as yourself, and to do unto others as you'd like done to yourself. The whole point of this is that you must look to your own needs first. Its a selfish ideal. Excuse the sinner, so that you can have your own misdeeds excused (the Lord's prayers expresses that one). As I quoted above - “If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you?"

And he also said “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For the measure you give will be the measure you get back.” So in order to benefit in life you had better get on the sinners' good side, so that they don't judge, condemn or penalise you. If you have a criminal record, a fellow bad person will help you get off far more than a good person.

As to giving away riches, the start of the conversation ran thus;
"And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good." Why ask about good indeed? Later "Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” So give to the poor. Not give to the good, but to the poor. What made the poor suddenly worthy of another man's goodness?

As Jesus proclaimed "For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

I have no need to justify Jesus' morals. They served his purpose and the purpose of those who followed him.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:22 am

You said.
"If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you?

It is reciprocity which is the essence of the Golden Rule. and shows love.

So you think you should not return good for good. Interesting.

You say we should not judge, yet you have to judge if you are being done good to or evil to yourself.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Is that quote not telling us to judge?

Regards
DL

Nasruddin
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:19 am

I don't believe in following an externally imposed ideal of moral behaviour. Human nature follows its own course.

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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:20 am

Nasruddin wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:19 am
I don't believe in following an externally imposed ideal of moral behaviour. Human nature follows its own course.

??

You have invented all the rules and laws you follow?

Did none of them come out of other ideologies that are all man made?

If not the Golden Rule, for instance, what is your morality based on?

Regards
DL

Nasruddin
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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Nasruddin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:45 am

Imposed ideologies bring division and conflict. Morality is not an ideology in itself, but is a response to the ideologies of others. I should do good/bad based on some one else's ideology?? Can't you think for yourself?

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Re: If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died, does that make Jesus a sinner?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:23 am

Nasruddin wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:45 am
Imposed ideologies bring division and conflict. Morality is not an ideology in itself, but is a response to the ideologies of others. I should do good/bad based on some one else's ideology?? Can't you think for yourself?
I do, but you did not answer the question.

Where do you get your notions of good and bad?

Regards
DL

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