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by Peter Kirby
Mon Apr 15, 2024 12:02 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Are there Marcion-Johannine readings?
Replies: 3
Views: 45

Re: Are there Marcion-Johannine readings?

Thanks. No, me neither, but I've only just started looking. We may yet find something when I piece together a synopsis. I also think we have enough data to say there is a literary relationship between Luke and the Evangelion, and I posit that the Evangelion is dependent on Luke (i realize you disag...
by Peter Kirby
Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:45 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Are there Marcion-Johannine readings?
Replies: 3
Views: 45

Re: Are there Marcion-Johannine readings?

I have not found any yet.
by Peter Kirby
Mon Apr 15, 2024 12:08 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen on the heterodox
Replies: 22
Views: 230

Re: Origen on the heterodox

Origen here is commenting on a biblical demiurgist proof text: 15.12 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" 15.13 He answered, "Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up." C...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:06 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen's interesting ideas
Replies: 5
Views: 117

Re: Origen's interesting ideas

Origen comments that John was the "last of the prophets" (citing Luke 16:16), whose arrest and eventual death (when followed by Jesus) fulfilled Genesis 49:10: "A ruler shall not depart from Judah, nor a leader from Israel, until that come which is laid up in store, and he is the expe...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen's interesting ideas
Replies: 5
Views: 117

Re: Origen's interesting ideas

May have relevance for how some could have interpreted Mark 6:4 // Luke 4:24 // John 4:44 also. Commentary on Matthew 10.18 But Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country. [Matthew 13:57] We must inquire whether the expression has the same force when applied univers...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen's interesting ideas
Replies: 5
Views: 117

Re: Origen's interesting ideas

There are a couple analogies here, including: The prophets and Moses had the function of "a tutor and stewards and guardians." (Galatians 3:24) In comparison to Christ, the scriptures appear as dung (Philippians 3:8), fertilizing a tree that bears fruit (Luke 13:8). Commentary on Matthew 1...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:36 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen's interesting ideas
Replies: 5
Views: 117

Re: Origen's interesting ideas

Celsus makes a remark, according to Platonist philosophy (objecting to the immortal divine Logos being "subject to change and reshaping"), to which Origen replies that what "appears to Celsus" is in error, and that he should learn that "while the Logos remains Logos in essen...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen's interesting ideas
Replies: 5
Views: 117

Re: Origen's interesting ideas

Origen, Homilies on Luke 6.4-6, pp. 24-26. 4.1 found an elegant statement in the letter of a martyr—I mean Ignatius, the second bishop of Antioch after Peter. During a persecution, he fought against wild animals at Rome. He stated, “Mary’s virginity escaped the notice of the ruler of this age.”9 It ...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:34 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Origen's interesting ideas
Replies: 5
Views: 117

Origen's interesting ideas

This thread is started as a place to put down some of Origen's "interesting ideas." Mainly because otherwise I'd forget them. The main heuristic is that I wonder if they were known before Origen wrote, e.g. to the 'heterodox', but I don't know. Homilies on the Psalms 77.8.3, p. 382 The Jew...
by Peter Kirby
Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:12 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Irenaeus Says the Carpocratians Referred to Jesus as a "Naked Man" (Nude Hominem)
Replies: 10
Views: 262

Re: Irenaeus Says the Carpocratians Referred to Jesus as a "Naked Man" (Nude Hominem)

The notion of Logos being envisaged as a ‘stark-naked’ one (γυμνὸς) is a recurring motif in Origen: it suggests the Logos not only as incorporeal but also as not being involved with, or engaging in, generating the material reality.200 On this, Philo influenced him.201 Two of the most faithful follo...