Search found 18571 matches
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:08 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
Even if Lightfoot and others waver and pin "the Ionian" as a living member of the Johannine tradition - viz Melito - the logic is still the same. https://books.google.com/books?id=GmFJAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA220&lpg=PA220&dq=lightfoot+melito+ionian&source=bl&ots=yPRAyan911&si...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:02 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
Ding, ding, ding Jackpot! I hear another paper
https://books.google.com/books?id=GXZ3C ... el&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=GXZ3C ... el&f=false
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:01 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
" In the Christian gospel of John, an heir to Ionian thought, logos is equated with God [Morris The Greeks p. 294] https://books.google.com/books?id=a9UrAQAAIAAJ&q=%22an+heir+to+Ionian+thought,+logos+is+equated+with+god%22&dq=%22an+heir+to+Ionian+thought,+logos+is+equated+with+god%22&am...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:44 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
The reason for Luke being placed last in this 'anti-Marcionite' formulation would be to diminish the value of the Marcionite gospel.
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:36 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
So the original ordering - the ordering at the time of the anti-Marcionite debates - was: John, Matthew, Mark, Luke if Clement can be dated to this period, it is my guess that he is acknowledging the Johannine gospel's superiority with his reference to 'the Ionian' being first. He speaks about his '...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:19 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
Also in De Recta in Deum Fide - the orthodox canon order is John, Matthew, Mark, Luke: AD. Will you agree if I show from the Gospels that they are not fabrications? MEG. I will agree if you prove it. First state the names of the Gospel writers AD. The disciples of Christ wrote them: John and Matthew...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:10 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
Apparently Tertullian (Irenaeus) isn't consistent in his John first ordering: Tertullian (c. 200) in one place gave the order John, Matthew, Luke, Mark (Adv. Marc. 4.2), and in another John, Matthew, Mark, Luke (Adv. Marc. 4.5). I lay it down to begin with that the documents of the gospel have the a...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:04 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
I don't know but when you think about it, it doesn't make sense that Irenaeus is supposedly the disciple of Polycarp who is the disciple of John who wrote the gospel but Irenaeus places Matthew first. That part of the equation might be a late addition to AH. Look also at Papias being supposedly asso...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:15 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
Apparently Origen gave tht order John, Matthew, Mark, and Luke in his Commentary on John (1.6). Now the Gospels are four. These four are, as it were, the elements of the faith of the Church, out of which elements the whole world which is reconciled to God in Christ is put together; as Paul says, 2 C...
- Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:10 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
- Replies: 54
- Views: 17631
Re: I Don't Get the Ordinal Grouping of Powers in Clement of Alexandria's Statement
And with respect to "the Ionian" being first on the list (= the Gospel of John in Ephesus) it is interesting to note that the consensus seems to be that John appeared first in the Egyptian canons and the canon of Clement's student Origen https://books.google.com/books?id=jIwRAAAAYAAJ&p...