Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Andrew, I appreciate your clarification. Though I did get this impression over the course of our conversation, initially I was responding to your statement that "Maccoby assumes that rabbinic argument in the Mishnah and later texts is Pharisaic. This is not necessarily true." As far as Mac...

Regarding the TF, I tend to lean towards the argument that Eusebius wrote it. He was the first to definitely cite it and it does seem to employ language that Eusebius is known to have used elsewhere. It also does seem strange that no one before him definitely cites it (whether a good, bad or neutral...

Regarding Origen's references to the fall of Jerusalem being due to the death of James, I agree with DC Hindley that Origen may have been confused about a passage in the Jewish War that says the same thing about Ananus. That he is confused is arguable given that he does not mention where in Josephus...

Andrew, Regardless of when the rabbis saw themselves as heirs of Pharisees, the fact remains that they did (and as far as I am aware, no one else has ever made a similar claim). Also as far as I am aware, no other sect has preserved any Pharisaic arguments. So if there is any connection between the ...

Andrew Criddle wrote: "Maccoby assumes that rabbinic argument in the Mishnah and later texts is Pharisaic. This is not necessarily true." It's been about twenty years since I've read Maccoby, so when I get time I'll take a fresh look at his work. In the meantime, and without looking very d...

Robert J, I cited an entire paragraph in which you seem to imply that Paul may have been a Pharisee to some degree, and two statements (plus the title of this thread) that seem to indicate that you question whether Paul was a Pharisee at all. Perhaps I misunderstood you, but this is how I understood...

Robert J, You wrote: "I think the gap in the first-century between the many, like Paul and Josephus, who chose to follow the precepts of the Pharisees --- and the Pharisee themselves, the leaders that endured extensive and specific education, apprenticeship and initiation ---- Was as large as t...

I forgot to add to the list of things it is hard to imagine the proto-Fourth Philosophy Pharisees doing, and that would be praising king Herod Agrippa and telling him, "You are our brother! You are our brother! You are our brother!" in M. Sotah 7:8.

Steven, I appreciate your response. Concerning Ant. 15.1.1 and the short-lived goodwill that Pollio and Sameus may have had for Herod, it is worth pointing out that the oath to Herod that they objected to was not something unique to them or the Pharisees. Everyone objected to it, and many of people ...

Robert J,

What difference would it make if Paul and Josephus were only nominally Pharisees?