Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Ben does the Oecumenius piece actually quote Papias? Yes, by name. And then he gives the shorter version. Do you know if the Roberts and Donaldson translation is the correct one for the shorter Apollonarius quote? It is correct for at least one of the texts of the shorter version, yes. I checked th...

I note that the wording of the longer Apollinarius quote of Papias is worded slightly differently in J B Lightfoot (Ed. J R Harmer 1891) The Apostolic Fathers p. 534-35 - “Judas walked about in this world a terrible example of impiety; his flesh swollen to such as extent that, where a wagon pass wit...

Thanks Peter I knew it couldn’t be that easy hence the “seems”. I had hoped it would be easy to find the texts Ben is talking about but I found your page instead. Wikipedia gives the long quote from Apollonaris of Laodicea, while this site gives the Roberts-Donaldson translation (http://www.earlychr...

When Matthew was creating his story about Judas as well as being influenced by his possible Q saying (Mt 19:28 – ‘Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging t...

About the making of the Last Supper: I think about that possibility: Paul knew, through the eyewitnesses, that Jesus was arrested before he had supper with his followers. From that, Paul imagined that Jesus could have had his last supper in a jail cell later, with no eyewitnesses -- this last suppe...

Here are my thought about the Last Supper in 1 Corinthians: http://historical-jesus.info/hjes3.html#lastsupper ... I had not heard of the “aorist tense”, but I am happy to translate παρέδωκα as “I transmit” rather than “I delivered”, so Paul is here passing on his revelation to the Christians of Co...

It is extremely dangerous to try and use 1 Corinthians 11:22-32 as evidence of anything early. The entire passage is considered by many critics as an interpolation. It is not attested in Marcion, and includes themes which are at odds with Marcion's Paul, such as receiving traditions. This is more l...

I have recently been reading about the case against Q and the idea that Luke edited Matthew in light of his oral tradition that was more primitive. Can people please post examples of Luke doing it with Mark? I’ll start with the Last Supper in Luke 22:17-19a (19b-20 seen as an interpolation). Mark ha...

It would be very interesting if Luke referred to “the Word” in the same way as in the Gospel of John. John uses ὁ λόγος, for “the Word”, which is seen as a heavenly being that becomes Jesus. Luke has here τοῦ λόγου, which could be seen as “that which has been said” or together both words as “of the ...

Good point. It's a saying that can't be genuine, though, so it would seem to be an addition to the original sayings collection.. I don’t know what you mean by “genuine”. (I thought it was normally used when referring to going back to Jesus, but I didn’t think we were discussing that. I thought we w...