Search found 7250 matches
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:57 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
- Replies: 17
- Views: 317
Re: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Thanks, GakuseiDon, for giving an example showing that some ancient people did claim cases of non-existence. According to Eusebius, Agrippa Castor wrote that Basilides invented prophets for himself that had no existence (E. H. 4.7.6-7): Of these there has come down to us a most powerful refutation ...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:54 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
I'm not sure if the Ascents of James should be in both options though, even after all you've said, since James doesn't die in that account. In all the other accounts (in both of your options) James dies. If there was an oral tradition that James was beaten to death that started it all, why did the ...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:12 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
Are you claiming that there were never any oral traditions or Christian stories told about the death of James prior to Hegesippus? Good question, and I guess my answer is no I"m not saying that, since it was surely a big event for Christians (and I also think the James passage in Josephus is g...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:35 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
You're not interacting with what I wrote at all here. I pointed out the parallels in a much more detailed way already, and I already concluded that there is a literary relationship between them. It just seems simpler to suppose that Hegesippus was known to Clement and whoever wrote the Second Apoca...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:14 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
- Replies: 23
- Views: 438
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:04 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
To be fair to you, John2, you're not the only one who gets this feeling here. Similar impressions are frequently noted in the literature. There's something to be said for the gravitational weight that the story in Hegesippus holds for some people. Hegesippus and/or Josephus is generally someone's fi...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:53 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
And the Second Apocalypse sounds like it's based on Hegesippus too. And they were there and found him standing beside the columns of the temple beside the mighty corner stone. And they decided to throw him down from the height, and they cast him down. And they [...] they [...]. They seized him and ...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:51 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
I have a different perspective here. It was explained in my posts.
I'm not sure how you think you've justified the conclusion (if you think you have) that there was only ever one story.
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:48 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
After taking another look at Clement ... I'm inclined to suspect that these two sources used Hegeisppus, since they both post-date Hegesippus I agree that Clement post-dates Hegesippus, and I'm just not sure whether Clement used Hegesippus or not. It's possible but not strongly indicated either way...
- Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:46 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
- Replies: 43
- Views: 618
Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
... since they both post-date Hegesippus ... As to the date and place of composition, little can be said with certainty . Let's say that we accept this. It would imply that you're unable to use this as an argument for the direction of dependence (for the Second Apocalypse of James). Yet it doesn't ...