Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

If Marcion's death-bed conversion (or whatever else you may want to call it) really happened, and especially if there was a letter from Marcion proving it, as Tertullian claims, why does Ireneaus not mention either of these things? Marcion who Justin was surprised was "still alive" in 140...

Therefore, let no one who does not shrink from speaking of Christ as an Angel, shrink either from declaring Him also to be God....Novatian.

Christ is at once both Angel and God....Cyprian

Sincerely,

John T

I have not tried to verify Epiphanius' source for the Pella tradition. Instead, I trust respected scholars like James Tabor who did and writes; "...there is strong evidence in its favor..."... The Jesus Dynasty (pg 299). If you want to track it down, Tabor's footnote regarding the oracle i...

I will gladly do as you wish, but your quote from Tertullian is -- as it was given without corroborating evidence--nothing more than gossiping. It is not a trivial thing to repeat an insulting statement about the work and life of a man/woman. Stories about death bed conversions are the food of pigs...

I remind you that in his book he admitted to being an agnostic and denied being an atheist according to his own ad hoc definition. That is simply not true, at least not in the terms that you are presenting. Please provide quotes that actually support the words you are using...You are simply mistake...

John, I feel like you are playing with words. Specifically, I feel like you are trying to bait me with the word "real" in your expression above ("real atheist"). I gave several instances of Dawkins both claiming to be an atheist and implying that he is an atheist. They evidently...

To the readers of this broken thread, I had no intentions of turning the O.P. into a debate on atheism. .... For those who wish to continue to debate if Dawkins is agnostic, atheist, or something in between, please start a new thread. For the matter is not up for debate. If the matter is not up for...

So, instead of arguing the merits, the pro-Marcions went to the default mode of ad hominem attacks. Wrong. What was demonstrated was that Tertullian used a stock ad hominem attack (claiming an opponent had a death-bed conversion to his side) and you are pretending this attack has validity, so you'r...

I will gladly do as you wish, but your quote from Tertullian is -- as it was given without corroborating evidence--nothing more than gossiping. It is not a trivial thing to repeat an insulting statement about the work and life of a man/woman. Stories about death bed conversions are the food of pigs...

To the readers of this broken thread, I had no intentions of turning the O.P. into a debate on atheism. If you review the O.P., I was acting in good faith to the original intent of the O.P. that is; what do we really know about Marcion? Then it went sideways. It went sideways after I (properly) cite...