Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

As I reread Pan. 30, another thing to consider is that Epiphanius says that Ebionites shared the Nazarene belief that Jesus was a man but that over time they "became associated with Elxai, and they have the circumcision, the Sabbath, and the custom's of Ebion, but Elxai's delusion . Thus they b...

I'm not sure what else there is to say about the texts. What Church writers say about Marcion lines up with the citations you've given of the Ebionite Matthew and the Clementine writings (which are commonly thought to incorporate the other Ebionite writings mentioned by Epiphanius). Why do these sim...

I It sounds like your thoughts are motivated by viewing it as a text that "Marcion" made, then situating the place of "Marcion" in a development of groups where "Marcion" is secondary to Ebionites. It's just the impression I get from what Church writers say. I realize ...

I think it's the other way around and Marcion used the Ebionite Matthew (as did Luke). Is there evidence for the priority of the Gospel of the Ebionites (in Panarion 30) before *Ev or before Luke? It's a deduction based on the Ebionites having branched off from the first Christians (according to Ep...

Epiphanius says the Ebionites branched off from the first Christians (Nazarenes), so it would make sense if their Matthew likewise "branched off" from the Matthew that Nazarenes used.

I think it's the other way around and Marcion used the Ebionite Matthew (as did Luke). This would explain why Marcion and the Ebionites shared similar doctrines, why these gospels resembled Luke, and why Marcon's gospel had some Matthew-like stuff.

Mark, Hebrew Matthew (which spawned the NT Matthew and Ebionite Matthew), Luke (which used everything in Greek that preceded it) and John.

Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:55 pm I guess the point of the OP is that you find it inconsistent the way ben Zakkai and Josephus are honored in memory (by unnamed persons).

Yeah. There appears to be inconsistency in how they are remembered.

He wasn't a turncoat to his nation , is what I'm saying, anymore than ben Zakkai. And while he abandoned the Fourth Philosophy, he was affiliated with the Pharisees, and they had the predominant form of Judaism (continuing into Rabbinic Judaism). Josephus betrayed the Fourth Philosophy, but not Juda...

Not as bad as I've heard and thought. My estimation of him as only increased recently, as far as his efforts to preserve Judaism go.