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by Giuseppe
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:48 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

I may merge the my basic opinion (proto-Mark as the gospel of Basilides) with the view of Birger A. Pearson about : Jesus is credited with being a “shape-changer,” exchanging shapes with... I would continue: ...this or that Best Disciple. Hence any apostle could claim, just as Paul, « I am crucified...
by Giuseppe
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:35 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

Finally: something I can (mostly/somewhat) agree with you on again. Irenaeus is (probably) not accurately describing Basilides' own opinions here; in fact, he is (probably) confused: Excuse me, Ben, but I don't see just how I am saying the same thing as the your quote. The my point is not that Iren...
by Giuseppe
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

But have you considered the broader "book-end" pattern in the Gospel of Mark. As per common literary style of the day Mark repeats or inverts opening motifs at the end of his book. Example, in the early chapters certain names are identified by their parents, while in the latter chapters w...
by Giuseppe
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:25 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

It is not a coincidence the fact that Irenaeus talks of a Cyrenaic «being compelled» . But note that when he talks of this forced obligation, he does n't reporting particularly what Basilides said, he is not quoting Basilides. Those angels who occupy the lowest heaven, that, namely, which is visible...
by Giuseppe
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

Guiseppe, my name is G iu seppe not G ui seppe. :banghead: Please don't repeat a similar Trump's error . :roll: Bob Price is careful not to be dogmatic about his suggestions that Basilides was behind the Gospel of Mark. Mark was secretary of Paul according to Papias. But according to Basilides, Gla...
by Giuseppe
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:54 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

What I said is that the readers of that verse in Mark were presumed to know who those figures are . That is not the same as counting on those figures for testimony, though that is one option, and one that I play around with sometimes in my proposed reconstructions or trajectories. In terms of langu...
by Giuseppe
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

It would thrill me if you could demonstrate for me that Basilides claimed that Alexander and Rufus are the ones who informed Peter about Simon of Cyrene. But that is not what I am seeing above. I have simply started from a candid and honest experiment of mind: what if I read Mark as a Basilidian? I...
by Giuseppe
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:21 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

The point is that Alexander and Rufus are mentioned in the Acts of Peter and Andrew , in company of Peter and Glaukias. Now, Glaukias was claimed by Basilides as a reporter of what happened about the replacement of Jesus with Simon on the cross . What is the reference for this specific detail? I ha...
by Giuseppe
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:26 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

I remember that here I heard the first time from prof Price the idea of a Basilides author of proto-Mark: After discussing the connection and confusion between the New Testament characters Simon Peter and Simon Magus, Price clarifies this suggestion of a Marcionite derivation for the gospel of Mark:...
by Giuseppe
Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:39 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 46
Views: 54853

Re: The docetism was a reaction to old Jewish DENIERS of the historicity of Jesus

1 When Andrew left the city of the man-eaters, a cloud of light took him up and carried him to the mountain where Peter and Matthias and Alexander and Rufus were sitting. http://gnosis.org/library/actpna.htm So the two sons of the Cyrenaic knew personally Peter, just as Glaukias knew Peter. And Bas...