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by Giuseppe
Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:49 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 869

Re: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

Where do you get the idea that Ignatius is rejecting them? do you realize the irony by Reinach? So Ignatius would throw the Old Testament overboard? It would be the case to say: already! The "archives" cannot be the Old Testament because otherwise Ignatius would have rejected them, by ans...
by Giuseppe
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:03 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 869

Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0104.htm Now the virginity of Mary was hidden from the prince of this world , as was also her offspring, and the death of the Lord; The comment by Salomon Reinach : 2°. Ignace écrit vers 115 ( Philad. , 8): Ἐπεὶ ἤκουσά τινων λεγόντων ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἐν τοῖς ἀρχείοις εὕρω...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:47 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel priority
Replies: 99
Views: 2068

Re: Gospel priority

So I think Luke is writing in reaction to Matthew and saw the advantage in including an infancy narrative, as Matthew had. where is the evidence that Matthew had an infancy narrative? A birth story, yes, but not an infancy narrative. Hence your scenario is left without a valid explanation about why...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:42 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer
Replies: 20
Views: 312

Re: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer

The curious thing is that in the original Greek there is not the equivalent of "it": ἐπεἀ ἥκoνσἀ τινων λεγóντων ὅτι ἐἁν μὴ τoῖς ἀρχαίoις (ἀρχείoις, GL) εὕρω ἐν τῶ εὐαγγελίῳ oὺ πιστεύω So the literal translation is: If I don't find in the archives, I don't believe in the gospel And not: If ...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:23 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer
Replies: 20
Views: 312

Re: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer

And some offer homage to the holy Ezra himself, while others, since it is stated in the conclusion of the book, say that in the archives (ἐν τοῖς ἀρχείοις), as friends of Job, pleased with the accomplishment, they deposited the writing concerning this matter. the book of Job was a "historical&...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:54 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel priority
Replies: 99
Views: 2068

Re: Gospel priority

(1) No, the birth story may have been added to material taken from Mark in order to show that Jesus did not become the Son of God at his baptism (cf. Mark 1.11), but rather he was conceived and born the Son of God. Just my thought, but it's very doubtful that Jesus became the Son of God only after ...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:50 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer
Replies: 20
Views: 312

Re: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer

The following is IMHO the greatest contribution by DCH to the forum (my bold): The word that is being variously translated Public Records or Archives is ἀρχείοις, from ἀρχεῖον , τό, neut. of an Adj. ἀρχεῖος, α, ον : ῾ἀρχή II):— A. town-hall, residence, or office of chief magistrates , Hdt.4.62 (dub....
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:42 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer
Replies: 20
Views: 312

Re: Where I diverge from Bruno Bauer

Ignatius, IMO, is arguing that Christ's crucifixion, death and resurrection can be found predicted in the ancient Scriptures . you are using the wrong translation. The Greek text reads arxeia , i.e. archives , public memories, not holy texts. Think about the sources used by Josephus to write Antiqu...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:35 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 19
Views: 404

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

I have reported only the Mills's claim that Basilidians and Valentinians adopted canonical Luke and then I have made 2 + 2 from my memory: Basilidians and Valentinians were known for their separationism. Hence it is obvious, quasi a tautology, that a docetist would have adopted *Ev. Really I believe...
by Giuseppe
Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:28 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel priority
Replies: 99
Views: 2068

Re: Gospel priority

So I think Luke is writing in reaction to Matthew and saw the advantage in including an infancy narrative, as Matthew had. also Klinghardt assumes that canonical Luke knew Matthew so I am not opposed to the idea. But the my point is that if canonical Luke has introduced the circumcision, then he di...