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by MrMacSon
Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:30 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Carrier on "gnosticism"
Replies: 134
Views: 7740

Re: Carrier on "gnosticism"

The issue, IIUC, isn't that Irenaeus identified a sect as Gnostic, or that Valentinus adopted the [heretical] principles of it, or even that many sects said they had gnosis - better gnosis, or more gnosis, etc., (all the gnoses) - it's that the term Gnosticism implies all these sects were homogenou...
by MrMacSon
Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?
Replies: 73
Views: 15845

Re: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?

it has occurred to me that there's no way Paul's version of the gospel could have been taught anywhere near Galilee or Judea - just imagine trying it! "Hey Rabbi did you know the Torah is worthless?" LOL. He'd have been torn to pieces "there's no way Paul's version of the gospel could have been tau...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:42 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?
Replies: 73
Views: 15845

Re: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?

Sixth, there were two main ways of abbreviating the words: suspension (whereby Jesus would become Je) and contraction (whereby Jesus would become Js) Which would in reality be, Ἰη [IH], or Ἰς [IC/IS], or the like? Yes, but with an overstroke. And Ἰη [IH], or Ἰς [IC/IS], or IHC (with an overstroke/s...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Carrier on "gnosticism"
Replies: 134
Views: 7740

Re: Carrier on "gnosticism"

I guess I am not sure I understand: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 1.11.1: 1a Let us now look at the inconsistent opinions of those heretics (for there are some two or three of them), how they do not agree in treating the same points, but alike, in things and names, set forth opinions mutually discorda...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?
Replies: 73
Views: 15845

Re: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?

... we do not see any nomina sacra in any manuscripts until verifiably "Christian" manuscripts start to appear, so this would be a century or more after the fall of Jerusalem in 70. The practice may have existed earlier, but we do not have the manuscripts, so we cannot say for certain. Cheers. When...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?
Replies: 73
Views: 15845

Re: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?

I think Joshua is an unhelpful rendition of Yeshua. It certainly is. I wish the various versions were simpler in the respect; unfortunately, they are not. And, to better reflect the transliterations in antiquity, Ἰησοῦς, / Iēsous [Jesus], is a better reflection of the then transliteration of Yeshua...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:32 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Carrier on "gnosticism"
Replies: 134
Views: 7740

Re: Carrier on "gnosticism"

I think Carrier gets to the crux of the issue in the repl[ies] below ( underling and bold mine) - Jeff Q No ancient writer used the word “Gnostic”? What about Ireaneus’ book “On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis”, which is basically the Constitution of the Apostolic Church? REPLY R...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?
Replies: 73
Views: 15845

Re: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?

The "Jesus" in question would have been Ἰησοῦς, / Iēsous (in Greek, of course), and the Hebrew hero would have been Yeshua As I have explained before (you must have forgotten), Jesus and Yeshua are the same name. There is no difference in the Hebrew, the Greek, or the Latin of the period; they are ...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Carrier on "gnosticism"
Replies: 134
Views: 7740

Re: Carrier on "gnosticism"

...these groups would be called "gnostic" given the kind of knowledge--divine/heavenly--they are claiming to possess. That's precisely my point. There isn't a difference between "orthodoxy" and what they call "gnosticism" on a fundamental level, and the same is true for orthodox Judaism and "Jewish...
by MrMacSon
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Carrier on "gnosticism"
Replies: 134
Views: 7740

Re: Carrier on "gnosticism"

And there is a clear distinction between what is commonly called "orthodox" and what is called "gnostic/heretical". I disagree. On the point there was no clear orthodoxy, and probably never was [and still isn't], I think Carrier is right. The problem here is that "Gnosticism" was a second century t...