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by MrMacSon
Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:02 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

What are the rules for this little game, then? ... What are the analogies you are working from? ... the rule you seem to be setting up may be flawed, and the exposure of the flaws in such rules knows no chronological boundary unless the rule itself has established one. I'm not setting up a rule.* I...
by MrMacSon
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:51 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Justin is referring to Gnostics which there is little evidence predated the first quarter of the second century < . . snip . . > I can easily believe the original Christians just got left behind once the Gnostics got going and the church fathers started swinging their codpiece around... just left b...
by MrMacSon
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

I note Irenaeus has lots to say about Paul - using his name in several chapters of at least two books of Adv. Haereses , apparently originally titled - 'On the Detection and Overthrow of Knowledge Falsely So Called' or 'On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis' (ancient Greek: Ἔλεγχος ...
by MrMacSon
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Logically, then, that various Christians in [late(?)] century II elevated Paul is irrelevant to what was happening earlier in century II or in century I or even earlier. I disagree. What was happening thru century II is very relevant to the context of what Tertullian was saying, much much more so t...
by MrMacSon
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:08 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Why would Tertullian find it necessary to elevate Paul at this stage of Christianity if Christianity was [supposedly] well established? Not sure what this means. Various modern Christians still "elevate Paul," and Christianity is extremely well established by now. That various modern Christians sti...
by MrMacSon
Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:11 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

The end of the opening chapter - chapter 1 , of course - of book five of Tertullian's Against Marcion : If you challenge us to your belief, (pray) tell us what things constitute its basis. Either prove the truth of what you believe or, failing in your proof, (tell us) how you believe. Else what con...
by MrMacSon
Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:11 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

... To Josephus every messiah claimant is a bandit and of little account. The original Christians to him were probably one of these bandits and renegades he lumps altogether ... There's little if any indication Josephus knew Christians or Christianity ( Antiquities 18.3.3 and 20.9.1/199-201 are lik...
by MrMacSon
Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:06 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

... Did Marcion really stumbled across orthodox scriptures? No, probably not. :thumbup: Though I'm not sure what you're getting at beforehand in that post with - And it's the same thing with the relationship between Marcion and his canon. Irenaeus and Tertullian tell us a story that Marcion stumble...
by MrMacSon
Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:01 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Well, since 'the only thing that doesn't seem to line up with the idea that Marcion used a version of Luke' * is what Hippolytus says about Mark, I reckon it's just a matter of explaining what he means by that (as Andrew attempts to do), since the citation he gives of Marcion's gospel is from Luke....
by MrMacSon
Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 233
Views: 27471

Re: Marcion's Gospel

But why even mention that at all? Mentioning Paul sure, given the tradition of Markion and Paul, but why even bring up gMark unless their was a connection in the tradition? I made a suggestion of a possible explanation here Basically Hippolytus is arguing: i/ The Gospel tradition which Hippolytus, ...