Search found 3293 matches

by neilgodfrey
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The date of 2 Thessalonians.
Replies: 120
Views: 41731

Re: The date of 2 Thessalonians.

For general interest: It has sometimes been thought that, if 2:4 refers to the temple in Jerusalem, the letter would have to have been written before 70 (see discussion by Wrede, 36–37, 96–113), but that is not a strong argument against a late date, ―for the apocalyptists often write as if things ar...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The date of 2 Thessalonians.
Replies: 120
Views: 41731

Re: The date of 2 Thessalonians.

What was the outcome here of the discussion re the nature of the temple per 2 Thess. 2:1-4 (http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3460&hilit=hadrian&start=100#p98959) ? It seems to have been deflected by a discussion on the resurrection, or have I misread the thread? ( One post did insi...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

Whatever we today regard the genre of the Gospels to have been, they were presented as some kind of actual history, Certainly they were presented as such at least from the mid to late second century. But how do we know that's how they were originally presented? Of course the narratives are patently...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:42 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

Indeed, the position of the temporal marker, "from the beginning" ("απ' αρχης"), seems to refer to their having become both "eyewitnesses" and "servants of the word" (or whatever way we understand these terms) at the same time. But what is this 'time' exactly, "the beginning"? This "beginning" can ...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:57 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

Nor am I certain that we should think the evangelists subsequent to Mark thought that their versions should "settle the narrative" or be the final version. It seems very clear that at least in the Gospel of John we have multiple editings of the work, changing and adding to it over time; ditto for Ma...
by neilgodfrey
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:52 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

I don't know if we should take for granted the common translations of Luke's prologue. There is another interpretation that I have not seen addressed yet: https://vridar.org/category/literary-an ... -prologue/
by neilgodfrey
Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:09 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

I meant "realism". That covers everything from the appearance of real to the really real.
by neilgodfrey
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:49 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

We can't read the author of gMark's mind, but we can see how at least two, and I think three, persons read it. Notice how the authors of Matthew and Luke (and John, too!!) felt free to change and rewrite it.
by neilgodfrey
Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:41 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

The use of prophecy was a stock tool for driving the plot of both fiction and history. Herodotus, the "father of history", narrated many instances of prophetic utterances of the Delphic oracle and it has been argued that Herodotus's Histories was as theological in function as the Hebrew Bible's hist...
by neilgodfrey
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:19 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: gMark is intended to be history writing
Replies: 56
Views: 40004

Re: gMark is intended to be history writing

It is worth keeping in mind, too, that even obvious fiction was frequently structured around prophecies and their fulfillment, and would also include historical persons as part of the fictional narrative. It was all part of the realism and drama.