Search found 13702 matches

by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:56 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 860

Re: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

This is the second reference by Reinach to the archives of Ignatius: Saint Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, writing about the year 110, says that the birth and death of Jesus were unknown to Satan, prince of this world; he also talks about certain people who made this objection to him: “What I do not fi...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:33 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 860

Re: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

I am listing all the references by Reinach to the archives mentioned by Ignatius. This is the first: 34. Bishop Ignatius of Antioch, in a very obscure phrase, wrote, about 110 a.d., against certain people who declared: “What we do not find in the [Roman?] archives, we cannot accept in the Gospel.” T...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:37 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

I have quoted Recognitions 8:62 as example of a complete denial. When Arthur Drews titled his magnum opus The Christ Myth , he meant to deny also the historicity of Jesus, not only the existence of the Christ. Only apologists may think the contrary. And in the case of Recognitions 8:62, a distinctio...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:01 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 860

Re: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

Anything can be about the historicity of Jesus as long as you (A) ignore the interpolations, and (B) insert "mention of Jesus" in brackets, and just presume all your assumptions are correct. Since you seem to be even unable to understand the argument raised by Solomon Reinach (about the i...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:55 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

There is also a difference between old deniers and old agnostics. As Richard Carrier says about the witness of Trypho: This is an agnostic, noncommittal position. It is simply saying, “You can’t even prove your guy existed, so why should I believe anything else you have to say about him?” It’s a bur...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 860

Re: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

I think what Giuseppe has in mind is this passage in The Epistle to the Tarsians No, I mean this (even if your quoted passage is considered by Earl Doherty evidence that well more than mere docetists are in view by Ignatius): When I heard some saying, If I do not find [ mention of Jesus ] in the ar...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:21 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Date of Marcion
Replies: 14
Views: 261

Re: The Date of Marcion

I don't know the precise dating but I think it was before the adoptionism/separationism. The separationist Cerinthus betrayes already an apologetical intent against Marcion, when he says that the carnal Jesus was a pious observant of the Law and the divine Christ was sent from a higher god than YHWH.
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:12 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans , according to both Solomon Reinach and Earl Doherty: Christian docetism therefore seems very clearly a way of reconciling the Christian idea of the divine and spiritual Christ, without which there is no Christianity, with a Jewish x . In what way could this x be ...
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

The Naassenes denied that the early apostles (Mariamne and James) saw his form:

We have heard his voice, but we have not seen his form.

Pseudo-Hyppolytus, 5.8.14
by Giuseppe
Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus
Replies: 62
Views: 860

Re: Further evidence that Ignatius faced old deniers of the historicity of Jesus

Why is this important (replying to Joseph D L)? Because I am tired to hear the apologetical motive that none doubted about the historicity of Jesus in the Antiquity. It will be difficult to change the conversation if your focus when you write is truly only about convincing yourself. In whiletime I ...