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by John2
Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

it doesn't seem implausible to me if this Simon interacted with Christians, In Acts, he *was* a Christian. He became a Christian, by interacting with Christians. seeing that they all lived in the same place and were active at the same time. They all lived a few blocks away from the Temple in Jerusa...
by John2
Sat Apr 27, 2024 5:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

Another way to look at it (assuming Josephus' Simon is the same as the one in Acts) Assuming pigs had wings, they could fly. John2, do you believe Acts is history? That every episode it talks about actually happened, as written? I do think Acts is history, but I look at it this way. As an old websi...
by John2
Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:35 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

Another way to look at it (assuming Josephus' Simon is the same as the one in Acts) is that anyone who knew Josephus (like the I assume the author of Acts did) would know that this Simon was a nefarious person. Do you suppose (in this scenario) that Acts intended to change Simon's image (to no avail...
by John2
Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

Well, but if he was Josephus' magician Simon, then he was a real person, like Theudas and Judas the Galilean. If. Reminds me of what the Spartans told Philip of Macedon, when he sent a message to the Spartans, "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your l...
by John2
Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:33 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

My guess is that the author of Luke/Acts knew Josephus and incorporated his "bad" guy magician Simon into his work, the same way they incorporated the "bad" guys Theudas and Judas the Galilean. Theudas and Judas remain "bad" guys in Acts and so does Simon. In a sense i...
by John2
Sat Apr 27, 2024 12:29 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

But with Simon we are left hanging. I don't read it as hanging, the story has just come to its conclusion. The stars of Acts are Peter and Paul. The guest stars just come on for one episode, and then they are gone. I stumbled upon a book that aims to rehabilitate Simon's image ( Simon Magus, the Fi...
by John2
Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

There's also Josephus, who I think mentions Simon Magus in Ant. 20, and he too appears to have a negative view of him ("a person whose name was Simon ... a Jew he was, and by birth a Cypriot, and one who pretended to be a magician") and says his influence came to naught (since the son Feli...
by John2
Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:48 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

But Zedekiah asked Jeremiah to pray for him and he met a bad end. So if anybody prayed for by anybody they meet a bad ending? Surely if Simon Magus met a bad end Acts would have told us. Well, no, but I assume the author of Acts was aware of Jer. 37 and the stories seem very similar. A big shot (Ki...
by John2
Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:36 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

I'm a sucker for happy endings, but he *did* ask for Peter to pray for him. The guy who Christ is building his kingdom on. The key holder. The first pope. And Faul's worst enemy :) If even handkerchiefs that Peter touched could cure cancer, I have to believe that--like a lost lamb to the fold, Simo...
by John2
Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:15 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?
Replies: 79
Views: 1539

Re: Implications of Marcion for early Christianity?

What's Iraneus's chain of apostolic descent? Why does he tell us all about Marcion's, but nothing about his own?? It's in AH 3.3.4: 4. But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Churc...