Search found 2817 matches

by John2
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:20 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

If you acknowledge that Irenaeus's blanket statement about 'the Ebionites' using 'the Gospel according to Matthew and repudiating Paul' is inaccurate. I think you only do that because you 'like' Epiphanius's material better. Epiphanius is problematic but his report on the Ebionites proves that thei...
by John2
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

The Ebionite gospel of Epiphanius DOES NOT agree with Irenaeus's blanket statement that the Ebionites use ONLY Matthew. Give me a fucking break. You're some kind of fanatic. The Ebionites did only use a gospel they called Matthew. As I said above, Irenaeus does not appear to have seen the Ebionite ...
by John2
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

It seems no different to me than subscribing to the Farrer Hypothesis (as I do). It's more or less the Farrer Hypothesis plus one other version of Matthew.
by John2
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:35 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

First, Epiphanius says that the Ebionites had mutilated and added things to Matthew, so the beginning of their gospel needn't align with the NT Matthew But since he only cites the beginning and what he does cite doesn't agree with your thesis - pretty, pretty, pretty bad for your theory. Epiphanius...
by John2
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:23 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

I don't believe I have to utter these words. IRENAEUS WAS ONE OF EPIPHANIUS'S SOURCES!!!! You make it sound as if these witnesses provide us with independent testimony in this respect. I suspect that Luke may have used a Matthew-type text This is plainly crazy as Mark and Luke show clear signs of a...
by John2
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:20 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

But your knowledge has nothing to do with any expertise or familiarity with Irenaeus's writing. It's just a result of making the evidence say what you want it to say Irenaeus says that the Ebionites used only the gospel of Matthew. He doesn't appear to have seen their gospel and in any event doesn'...
by John2
Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

But then you should be able to see the problem emerging: 1. canonical Matthew 2. the Gospel according to the Hebrews 3. Matthew first 'arranging' the oracles of the Lord' into a Gospel in Hebrew you have identified (1) and (3) as being the same. But clearly (2) and (3) have more overlaps if Epiphan...
by John2
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:28 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

I am particularly intrigued by the possibility that the 'logia of the Lord' arranged by Matthew somehow contained Johannine material. Whitelaw tackles the question here - https://books.google.com/books?id=_Z09AAAAYAAJ&pg=PR38&dq=%22oracles+of+the+Lord%22+%22johannine%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=...
by John2
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:20 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:10 am
John2 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:36 am
I don't think Matthew used Mark as a source....
Do you mean our canonical Greek Matthew or the proposed Hebrew Matthew?

The Hebrew Matthew that Papias mentions.
by John2
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark
Replies: 63
Views: 7666

Re: The Gospel of Marcion Cannot Have Been Derived from the Gospel of Mark

And this is so annoying: Papias is obviously not referring to the NT Matthew but to a Hebrew Matthew YOU want to see it as canonical Matthew in Hebrew. But that's not at all clear from the context. If the text was written in Hebrew it would be attributed to Matthai. There were lots of texts in anti...