Search found 440 matches

by Ken Olson
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

In the meantime, my own current understanding of this passage is that the author knew the Pauline epistles: 1 Corinthians 13.1: 1 Though I speak with the tongues of humans and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 1 Corinthians 14.23-25: 23 Therefore if t...
by Ken Olson
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:52 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)
Replies: 9
Views: 139

Re: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)

Peter Kirby wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:50 am
I may be able to recap the argument at some point.
Peter,

Thanks; yes, I know that was an awfully big request.

Best,

Ken
by Ken Olson
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

The image of removing old garments and putting on new ones makes a lot of sense to me as a metaphor for the spiritual transformation which is supposed to happen at baptism. The image of not using a new patch on an old garment does not strike me in quite the same way; a new garment is not even menti...
by Ken Olson
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:39 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)
Replies: 9
Views: 139

Re: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)

I am working my way through Klinghardt, and I am also sometimes struggling to find the thread of the argument. After convincingly establishing that *Ev preceded the Gospel of Luke , at the outset of the discussion of *Ev and Mark, he says (p. 199): Peter, You found Klinghardt's argument that the Ev...
by Ken Olson
Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

The issue is an order of hierarchy and defined positions. Why do you need a hierarchy in house church of say 10 people? Why are we concerned with apostles and teachers ranks. These imply many churches, and significant management duties. (1) I think there are probably more people than that in the Co...
by Ken Olson
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

What strikes me however, as the passage 1 Corinthians 14:23-25 is not attested in Marcion, is that we have arrived at a much later date in the churches formation that the early evangelizing days symbolized by Paul and other legendary apostles. Stuart, The passages you cite would seem to support the...
by Ken Olson
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:42 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)
Replies: 9
Views: 139

Re: Dogs remain dogs (in Mark)

How do you know it wasn't the other way around, that Jesus was held to have preached first to Jews in Judea, and only later to Gentiles, as our New Testament sources tell us, and then Marcion reacted against that belief? Your argument (to use the term generously) would seem to be circular. You are p...
by Ken Olson
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

Only think about this curious anomaly in your scenario: "Luke" (editor) felt someway that the parable of wineskins supported Marcion, hence he changed radically the sense of the parable, by making it sure that (5:39) No one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, ‘The old is good enough...
by Ken Olson
Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

I side with Ben and Klinghardt, Matt and Luke's changes are too obvious to be anything but an anti-marcionite reaction Changes to the Parable of the Wineskins? What changes specifically show that and how? And how do the changes Matthew and Luke make to Mark undermine the rading of Mark that I propo...
by Ken Olson
Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:13 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: New wine into fresh wineskins
Replies: 31
Views: 428

Re: New wine into fresh wineskins

I am certainly open to finding baptismal sayings in different contexts in our extant texts. What I am wondering is why you think Mark put a baptismal saying here, in this context. Was it a saying he knew and decided that this was a good home for it? Did he invent it on his own, about baptism, and t...