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by Ken Olson
Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:55 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

If we accept also that canonical Luke knew and used Matthew, then that places all three synoptic gospels before c. 130 CE. It may be interesting to mention Papias also in this connection. Remarks about Papias generally place him in the reign of Trajan. Most of the references occur in a context that...
by Ken Olson
Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:51 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

also Klinghardt assumes that canonical Luke knew Matthew so I am not opposed to the idea. If we accept also that canonical Luke knew and used Matthew, then that places all three synoptic gospels before c. 130 CE. Not at all. If anything Matthew used Luke, and there is tons of evidence to support th...
by Ken Olson
Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:26 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

Giuseppe wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:28 pm also Klinghardt assumes that canonical Luke knew Matthew so I am not opposed to the idea.
If we accept also that canonical Luke knew and used Matthew, then that places all three synoptic gospels before c. 130 CE.
by Ken Olson
Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

Giuseppe is ready to accept that Basilides knew Luke as an obvious fact, but I am going to post the case for it here anyway. I'm also ready to accept this, and I'm curious where we can go with it. If we had solid dates for Basilides and for when he wrote the Exegetica and also for the reported even...
by Ken Olson
Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

Now, if the writer of Luke 1-2 is crafting a narrative for the purpose of countering the claims of docetists and the like, how do we know that the writer of this narrative has not also incorporated elements from Basilides? This writer is clearly appropriating ideas from other sources, which is evid...
by Ken Olson
Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:39 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

I don't find Mills' case convincing ... But he also cites this: This, [Basilides] says, is what was stated: “‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you’ – that which came from the Sonship through the boundary of the Spirit upon the Ogdoad and Hebdomad, unto Mary. ‘And the power of the Most High will overs...
by Ken Olson
Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 23
Views: 450

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

Andrew Gregory, The Reception of Luke and Acts in the Period Before Irenaeus: Looking for Luke in the Second Century, Mohr Siebeck, 2003; 77–80: 4.5.1 Hegemonius, Acts of Archelaus 67.1 The Acts of Archelaus is an account of a disputation between one Archelaus and the heresiarch Manes. The text is ...
by Ken Olson
Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Date of Marcion
Replies: 14
Views: 274

Re: The Date of Marcion

Thank you for this post, Ken. It's an interesting point about Basilides using Luke. The date of the 15th year of Tiberius could, of course, come from Marcion’s Evangelion In the phrase Marcion's Evangelion, what relationship is there between Marcion and Evangelion? It’s intended to be a neutral ter...
by Ken Olson
Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Date of Marcion
Replies: 14
Views: 274

Re: The Date of Marcion

Did Basilides know the The Gospel of Luke? Giuseppe is ready to accept that Basilides knew Luke as an obvious fact, but I am going to post the case for it here anyway. (The unfinished post has been sitting around in my docs file for the better part of a year). The late Martin Hengel argued that the...
by Ken Olson
Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:07 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Date of Marcion
Replies: 14
Views: 274

The Date of Marcion

This question came up in another thread: In my view, Mills should corroborate more the his point that Basilides preceded temporally Marcion, rather than insist again and again the too much obvious fact that Basilides used canonical Luke. I will take the rare step of agreeing with you there. I think ...