You are right that only a couple of those ones from Ben are Luke, they are a mixture of the Gospels preceding Mark. (Leading to Matthew and likely John also preceding Mark, as well as Luke.)
So I will work on a full presentation showing Luke-Mark connections.
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- Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:07 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
- Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:14 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
Every point in Ben's article, plus my additions.
If Mark has the presumption of reader's knowledge, and that readers knowledge is in Luke's Gospel, it is all very simple.
- Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:53 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Gospel priority
I really do not see how "priority" can even be a discussion in the theories that place the Gospels in the 2nd century, or even just after AD 70.
- Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:51 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
(c) Nothing you've said does anything to identify which gospel should be presupposed in this prior-gospel hypothesis. Do you have an additional argument to say that a prior gospel here could not, for example, be Matthew? Comparing Luke and Matthew as sources for Mark, we have the ten or so reasons ...
- Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:09 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
(a) If historicism is true (and let's assume here that it is - I have no such presuppositions in favor of mythicism), then we should suppose that there were stories told about Jesus, often described as an oral tradition. The historical existence of Jesus is a simple explanation of a pre-existing tr...
- Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:25 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
Please explain how Ben's thread presents "really clear arguments of Luke preceding Mark." Presumptions of reader knowledge in Mark. That reader knowledge is material in Luke's Gospel. Ockham says the simplest explanation is the best, Luke was being read by readers now reading Mark. Sure, ...
- Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:05 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
Alright so isn't it, to put it plainly, wrong not to mention the major premise of yours here, that Luke preceded Mark in time due to your "high view and early origins of ... Luke" and your "Theophilus proposal"? And thus wrong to refer to the argument as being made in Ben's thre...
- Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:37 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
Does "a high view and early origins of Mark and Luke" imply that Luke (ca. mid-60s) preceded Mark (later in the 60s or the next decade)? Because if you're also assuming that Luke preceded Mark already , before any considerations adduced by Ben Smith, that's a big difference. Hi Peter, I h...
- Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:25 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Re: Mark's dependence on Luke
We've seen this false claim before. Ben might believe in lost texts and extensive textual trajectories, as one poster wrote, and not make any definite connection from his analysis of Mark's usage of Luke. Ben could study a tiny detail (see Levi, Matthew, & Matthias ) and make hypotheses about i...
- Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:42 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 124
- Views: 12785
Mark's dependence on Luke
This thread by Ben C. Smith essentially proved that Luke preceded Mark Presumptions of reader knowledge in Mark. https://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3818 And this thread builds on what Ben wrote: Mark's dependence on Luke - the end of Markan priority - plus support for the tradit...