Search found 571 matches

by Stuart
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:56 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

I don't think it is as complicated as you make it and I think you want to make it that complicated so you have the liberty to do what you want with the evidence. Tertullian's use of Irenaeus's Against the Valentinians is slavish to the original in most places. Irenaeus wrote a treatise against Marc...
by Stuart
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:52 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

Here is a suggestion that 'Tertullian' is a composite of many Greek authors translated into Latin: If this observation is correct his collection would be no different a collection in nature than those of Irenaeus or Augustine (see O du leiber Augustine: Falsche Bekennntnisse , Hermann Detering). An...
by Stuart
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:56 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

We're NOT talking about Against Marcion. We're talking about the testimony in On the Flesh of Christ. It's still two or three generations after the split. Materially changes nothing, if it is that early, if it is authentic. De Carne Christi presents a story of how the Orthodoxy viewed their rivals....
by Stuart
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:54 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

Again you have it wrong (normal for you). Tertullian had a Greek version of the Marcionite text before him. The polemics may well have come from a prior source. I think you have demonstrated his arguments were lifted from a source common to the one used by the writer of one of the Irenaeus works. Te...
by Stuart
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:01 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

John 7:5, in my view, was almost certainly not part of the first version of John that circulated (probably written by an opponent of the Petrine and Johannine merger). It's quote is thus anachronistic, ironically. John 7:1 is used against the Alogoi so it must have been part of the gospel of John b...
by Stuart
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:05 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

Origen is 3rd century too. I am not saying the four gospels were not extant in the 2nd century, and certainly they were by around the start of the 3rd quarter of that century. Indeed there were probably a variety of versions of the four gospels extant at that time, and your local church might have h...
by Stuart
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:09 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

The material in the compendium of authors (yes plural) under the name Irenaeus (although Tertullian is cited by Stephen here, which he likes to identify as Irenaeus, just as he likes to relabel other works to confuse the reader) is probably much later than conventionally dated. The material appears ...
by Stuart
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels
Replies: 17
Views: 365

Re: Proof that Irenaeus Meant Marcion had All Four Gospels

Again you play games with names, as if it's established by anyone other than yourself. :facepalm: What Tertullian seems to be relaying is an association of John's legend with Apelles. This is something I have concluded without this tidbit, and place that association in Asia Minor. What is curious is...
by Stuart
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:23 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Competing Q Reconstructions
Replies: 5
Views: 173

Re: Competing Q Reconstructions

DCHindley, You should create a folder on google drive and upload them there. Then make the file read only for anyone with the link (if not PDF, say Word or XLS) Then all you have to do is provide a link. People can see it without downloading. It's much more convenient, especially when you are using ...
by Stuart
Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:22 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Luukeey! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do. Did Original "Luke" Have No Resurrection Sightings?
Replies: 23
Views: 2578

Re: Luukeey! Ya Got Sum Splainin Ta Do. Did Original "Luke" Have No Resurrection Sightings?

Joe, I don't think we can be confident, given you think the latter material after Luke 24:10, is mostly Catholic, that there was not tampering with the material before that verse. The entire death and resurrection was central to the sectarian competition, each wanting to shape their own. Each succes...