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by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:50 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

I agree, that it's very odd as a modern forgery. But then, I think it's pretty odd that Smith used the Adi Da cult, headed by Da Free John, who was accused of sexual abuse by his victims, to publish his book on the Letter. The Mar Saba letter and its story has plenty of major oddities regardless of...
by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:48 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

So one cannot ascribe a forger's motives purely to proving that academia is gullible. Neither purely nor partially. We either admit that the experts-on-Secret-Mark-forgery were wrong on this, or we're not making progress and proceeding on one of the most abundantly clear facts of the case. I take y...
by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:10 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

If it's M.Smith's forgery, maybe he did intend the possibility for academia to be able to figure out the forgery eventually, and this explains what some readers find to be clues or signatures like the Mar Saba Mystery or Anglo Saxon Attitudes literary analogies. We're not talking about the same thi...
by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:56 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

One of the things that makes me very uncomfortable is that people are willing to appeal to arguments based on supposed general principles that they neglect to study in their own right, when these general principles are at least as interesting as the text itself. For example, is there ONE known exam...
by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:01 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

potential assistance, as you said. No, I didn’t say that the claim of “potential assistance” was a reasonable counter-argument. I was referring to what you said. One of the things that makes me extremely uncomfortable with the forgery argument is how little time is spent on the most important and s...
by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:04 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

So if the Mar Saba letter had turned up in another cave or monastery According to you, paleography is not a "strong" argument for authenticity. Because a forger "could have had assistance," that means, according to you, that the script itself isn't a strong argument. If the forger could have help a...
by Peter Kirby
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:08 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark
Replies: 56
Views: 1089

Re: A Suggestion for Revising the Early Writings' Entry for Secret Mark

But each of these arguments turn out to not be so strong. Compared to...? Most manuscripts aren’t subjected to physical tests such as carbon dating or chemical analysis of ink (and, in this case, pro-forgery arguments generally accept that the Voss is real and that a forger could make the ink). Mos...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:38 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: a possibility so remote that it deserves a little reflection
Replies: 102
Views: 4658

Re: a possibility so remote that it deserves a little reflection

Likewise, the portrayal of Clement as someone who himself engages in mystery cult rituals unknown in Church history is much different than what we know of him, as he typically was opposed to the gnostics' secretive knowledge rituals. I'm not ignoring this point, but arguments specifically about whe...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:42 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The seven veils.
Replies: 29
Views: 575

Re: The seven veils.

For reference, this is what a forgery constructed with inspiration from Wilde's Salome and her "dance of the seven veils" looks like. The Songs of Bilitis by Pierre Louÿs (1894) ("First published in Paris in 1894, this purports to be translations of poems by a woman named Bilitis, a contemporary and...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The seven veils.
Replies: 29
Views: 575

Re: The seven veils.

I'll just note that the link of the Mar Saba letter to Oscar Wilde's play depends on the appearance close together in both works of "seven veils" and "Salome." I think that Wilde is the first English writer to associate seven veils with Salome. The Mar Saba letter, however, doesn’t “associate” a re...