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by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:57 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: History trumps Theology

If there's an intellectual graveyard, then there is also a history of it, and all theology is also part of history. Indeed, there is a history of theology.... A written history or archaeological finds deemed to relate to theological ideas and practice. Scott Atran does good work "In God's We T...
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:51 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: History trumps Theology

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:43 am Is anyone here actually arguing that Christianity has nothing to do with history?
Not me..... :popcorn:
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:48 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

Seriously though, history is important not just for people today but also for the gospel writers. It is history that has the potential to throw its light upon the gospel Jesus story. All theology can do is lead the way to an intellectual graveyard. If we understand religion as a foundational social...
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:06 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: History trumps Theology

If there's an intellectual graveyard, then there is also a history of it, and all theology is also part of history. Indeed, there is a history of theology.... A written history or archaeological finds deemed to relate to theological ideas and practice. Scott Atran does good work "In God's We T...
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

The core of the gospel Jesus story. - a Roman execution of a King of the Jews - the fundamental historical Christian claim... a claim that will symbolically be played out in some churches tomorrow, by thousands of believers in the historicity of the gospel Jesus figure.... *** A sacrifice of a huma...
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:25 am Declaring what Gospel writers could and could not have written and meant, based on retrojecting one individual's modern preference, for example that such was somehow really about the last Hasmonean, is sometimes called eisegesis.
History, Stephen....history trumps theology... :popcorn:
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:07 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 20
Views: 107

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

So - you get 100 doubters against 1000 believers - what then ? This is an exercise in futility...... And imagine if a Middle-platonic first century "doubter" knew the "truth" that the Monad existed and that Christ devotees held deluded positions on reality! Much like we regard t...
by maryhelena
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 552

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

Are you contending that these people thought that the figure of IS XS appeared in history as a god, or a deity, or a spirit, or a mythological being rather than a historical "fleshy" human being? That's right. So if Marcion, for example, had a time machine, he'd have thought he could go b...
by maryhelena
Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 294

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

GD's question has merit, its perfectly fine to catalogue such statements. OK.... catalogue away.... 😁 I think a more pertinent question, however, is whether there was anyone who expressed any knowledge of a Jesus person independent of the Gospel accounts. To my knowledge there is no evidence for an...
by maryhelena
Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:06 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 294

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

GDon The title of your thread asked the question: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted? Your OP went on to define what you mean by 'historical Jesus'. ' 'By 'historical Jesus', I mean a figure living around 30 CE who inspired the Gospel stories, even if the Gospel stories th...